The Neurodivergent Bible Teaching Podcast

Denea (00:00)
Hello, hello! It's Denea, your host of the Neurodivergent Bible Teaching Podcast. I am so happy to be talking to you today, to be here today. I am uh sitting in front of the window that's in front of my desk, and there's this big tree that has, I have no idea what type of tree it is, but it has
Denea (00:30)
the most beautiful leaves. They're green, but then they're like turning this bright red. Um and I'm just I'm just in awe. Um and I hope today that wherever you're you're listening you I don't know find something to be in awe of. It doesn't have to be something big. You know, it can be um
Denea (00:57)
Something small. It can be the sound of somebody laughing. Um, I did that the other day with our son. Uh, he was watching a show, and I don't know. I was just listening to this, to the sound of him laughing, and I was like, oh my goodness, I can't, I can't believe like I've I get to hear this right now. Um, maybe it is the sight of something in nature, or maybe you are walking.
Denea (01:28)
Uh in the street, down the street, and you just happen to notice this beautiful building. And you just kind of allow yourself to be in awe just for a second of the architecture of the building. Um, the little things. I hope you find something that is that is little um for you to just be in awe of today. I think I think those little things really matter. I think they add up. So today's episode is kind of a continuation.
Denea (01:58)
Of ways to stem while we are studying God's word. And before I begin, I just want to say I think this is so important because a lot of us have been taught to kind of um this is gonna sound odd, I think, to to leave our bodies when we're studying scripture, like our neurodivergent needs.
Denea (02:28)
Can't come with us as we're studying scripture. Um, it has to be one or the other, right? Or it has to be one or the other during prayer, or it has to be one or the other in worship that we have to choose to, you know, rock back and forth or sing uh praise and praise and worship. We can't do both. And I think that it is so important for us.
Denea (02:52)
As Christians who are neurodivergent, to understand that that is not God's view, that is not God's heart towards us. Um, that is toxic theology, any any type of um doctrine that encourages you
Denea (03:12)
To think of yourself, um, to think that you have to perform for God or um to think that you can't be authentic in the way that He has made you, that is that is toxic. And so that's why I've been kind of focusing lately on ways to stem while we are studying God's word. It's it's a a way of us being like, okay, our bodies can come with us. m
Denea (03:36)
As we're studying God's word, okay, our neurodivergent needs, we can address them in his presence. He doesn't mind. He doesn't mind at all. And so again, this is not an exhaustive list. Um, to be honest with you, I've actually had really a lot of fun compiling this list because I'm like, I thought, I was like, oh, how am I gonna think of 15 ways? And then I got to 15, and then I did, I think.
Denea (04:04)
There yeah, 15 more today. And I was like, oh wait a minute, there are so many more. There's so many more ways. So this has actually um been really fun for me. Okay. So the first one today, uh sit on a wobble cushion. A wobble cushion that's really big in our house. Um we love it and I think it's a a great addition while you're studying God's word. Um doodle while you're studying
Denea (04:33)
God's word. You can make you can write in your Bible. You can write in your Bible, or maybe if you have like a notebook that you take notes in, or maybe you just have a separate notebook just for doodles. You can doodle while you are studying God's word. Um, hug a stuffy. I've actually recently gotten back into just stuffies. Um, and they're really, really soothing.
Denea (05:01)
And I think it's a great, again, another great way to stem um to care for your neurodivergent needs while you're studying God's word. Twirl a ring or a bracelet. Use colorful highlighters. Which y'all, when I realized this, I was like, wait a minute. Is this why? Like, I have always found it so soothing to look at
Denea (05:32)
Um markers, crayons, colored pencils, um highlighters that are just like aesthetically pleasing and very colorful. And I think that that is because it's like a visual stem, kind of like uh in the last um episode we I talked about stimming while you're reading the studying the Bible.
Denea (05:57)
I talked about using like a visual streamer, like having a light or something that that kind of goes on like around your room that's also big in our house. Um, well, I think um I'm starting to really think that it's the same effect, like colorful highlighters, colorful pins. Um, this unlocked something for me. This this made so much sense when I was thinking about it. So yes.
Denea (06:23)
Colorful highlighters. And you know what? I'm I'm gonna say you don't even have to use them. If you use them in your Bible, that's great. But I think that just having them close by can also be visually stimulating as well. Rub a soft blanket, the idea they're kind of like rubbing a stuffy, ho hugging a stuffy. Um sip something through a straw. So getting heavy work in that way, heavy work is also really big in our house.
Denea (06:53)
um for our son and for us as well. Adults need heavy work um as well. Uh color a Bible coloring page. So I love to color. I have recently um gotten back into coloring. You know, I colored a lot as a kid and I think I don't know just in my 20s I was like oh that's that's just something you do as a kid. I I need to stop coloring.
Denea (07:23)
And recently I'm like, oh wait a minute, no. Like why am I going to stop coloring? But here's the thing: all coloring books are not created equally. For me, I find it very unsettling to be to color a coloring book that has like 50 million thousand trillion.
Denea (07:48)
things to color like that I get so overwhelmed and I'm like I can't do this. I like I think it's just I get overwhelmed and I don't know where to start. I love children's coloring books or um those like they usually have like relaxing somewhere in the title um adult relaxing coloring books or cozy relaxing coloring books. Well I also make some that have verses scriptures in them and you can also do that as well.
Denea (08:18)
Um, bounce on an exercising ball. Oh, that's great. Um, I have I have done that again. That is big in our house. It really helps. Whisper what you're reading. And I want to say, I think this one is a really good example of it. For some of us, whispering, like we don't like it, right? Like it's we have a very strong reaction to somebody whispering. And so if that is you.
Denea (08:47)
You know, don't don't do this one. If you if you hear one and you're like, oh, that's not me, it's totally okay to be like to say that, to know that, to own it, to honor it. It is totally okay to do that. The the idea of this list is to um brainstorm um for you to hear these, maybe try some, or maybe hearing something, one of these is gonna ignite something, an idea in you.
Denea (09:16)
That's the whole idea of this list. Um, use a chew toy, underline repeated words. Okay, so not only um is this a way to stem, but this is a great way to actually practice uh biblical literacy skills. So whenever we see repeated words in scripture.
Denea (09:47)
Um, it's like some we should we should be flagged. We should we should be like, okay, wait a minute, whoa, whoa, whoa, something's happening here. The author is trying to emphasize a point. And when we kind of study those repeated words and context, it can really help us understand the point that the author is trying to emphasize. So I love
Denea (10:11)
That underlining repeated words is not only a great stim, but it's also a great way to practice biblical literacy skills. Um, squeeze a stress ball. Snap your fingers. And the last one is playing with putty. I am actually doing that right now as I am podcasting. Um, again, playing with putty, it's something that I used to do when I was little. I think, like, you know, with Play-hough. And then we got this for our son.
Denea (10:41)
And then like one day I just kind of started um I don't know, holding or playing with it. And I was like, wait a minute, this is something here. Why don't I have this for my for myself? Um and so I find that whenever I am studying, reading, um, writing, I will have this just putty in in my hands. Um, again, it's a great way to kind of do that that heavy work, but um
Denea (11:11)
Also, really soothing, and um, it's a great addition to to STEM while you are studying the Bible. Just as a reminder, as you are doing this, people may negatively react towards us as we are stemming out in public, whether you are studying the Bible, whether you are um
Denea (11:40)
In church, and by the way, if that has happened to you, I am sorry. I am so sorry if you have experienced that.
Denea (11:48)
But I want you to know that people's reaction to us stimming that is not God's reaction. Hallelujah. Hallelujah. God is not like people. That's not his reaction. God wants us to take care of our neurodivergent needs. And it we can do that in his presence. We can do that as we study his word. We can do that while we sing praise and worship.
Denea (12:18)
We can do that as we go about our daily lives. Um, hallelujah. God, God is more than okay with us caring for our neurodivergent needs. So that is it for today's episode. Um, feel free to message me on Instagram. I will put um my name or my handle in the description below.
Denea (12:45)
But um it's at Danae Maribel. I will spell that out for you in the description. It's just my first and last name, but I would love to hear from you. Um, or if you're listening on Spotify, comment on this episode. I would love to hear from you. What are some ways that you stem while you are studying God's word? Or maybe you heard this episode today and you're like, oh my goodness, this has never occurred to me. I am looking forward to trying that.
Denea (13:15)
Or this. So I'm gonna try both of these. I would love to know what you're what you're gonna try and how that goes for you. Um, uh in the description below, I will also link um a page where you can sign up to get updates uh about my book, This Mind of Mine. It's a devotional for Christians who are neurodivergent and finding belonging and using scripture to navigate shame and finding your identity in Christ.
Denea (13:42)
Um, I will put that link in the description for you as well. I love you. Take care of yourself. Honor your neurodivergent needs. And I will talk to you next time.
Instagram: @deneamarable
Link for More Information on This Mind of Mine: https://deneamarablebooksignup.subscribepage.io

0:02 - 0:38
Intro
Hello, it's Denea your host of the NeuroDivergent Bible Teaching Podcast. This podcast is dedicated to helping you understand how to study the Bible. I'm Dené, I'm neurodivergent, I'm autistic, I have ADHD and OCD, and I know what it's like to struggle to understand how to study the Bible, let alone also honoring my brain while doing it. I've learned a few things through seminary, um, through life, and I want to share those things with you.
0:38 - 1:10
In this podcast, you will hear all about, um, studying techniques, some Bible studies so you can understand how to apply those techniques, some neurodivergent encouragement, and just some ways that I'm learning to honor the way that God has created my brain. I'm so happy that you're here.
End of Intro
Let's get started. Hello, hello. It's your host Denea of the NeuroDivergent Bible Teaching Podcast.
1:10 - 1:51
I hope that wherever you are, you are giving yourself permission to allow yourself to live at whatever pace, uh, serves you and supports you right now. For the majority of the month of September, at the time of this recording, it's September, I have been in ADHD burnout. And I try not to sometimes... I don't know if, if you can relate to this or not, but I, I try not to, like, trace it back to a cause because I, I find that sometimes that, that it- that's a trigger for me to get very judgmental on myself.
1:52 - 2:25
But I did it this time. But I did it this time, and I think that some of the things that kind of, um, made my nervous system, my brain kind of protect itself with ADHD burnout, the fact that, you know, I had, I had surgery. I, I've said this before, uh, endometriosis surgery at the end of July. And pretty much for the month of August, I was just kind of, you know, around the house, healing, taking it easy, that sort of thing.
2:25 - 3:02
And then September hit, and it was back to school. And, you know, for us, back to school means, you know, meetings, um, all these back to school events, answering emails. Uh, it's also the start of soccer season, so there's that. And, and all of this is in addition to, like, being a human, right? Like me being my own, uh, being my own being, being, being someone who I need to take care of, who has chronic conditions, um, who works and who does this and who writes and...
3:03 - 3:35
And I think it... My brain was just like, "Woo, no." "This is, this is too much." And I have been in ADHD burnout, and I'll be honest with you, I really felt sad about that because September is my birthday month. Usually, I, I think I've given up on being excited about my birthday, and I'm just like, "I'll just do s- one thing. I'll just do one thing," and breakfast, and that'll, that'll be it. Um, but this year I was like, "You know what?
3:35 - 4:09
I'm gonna get back to being excited, and I'm gonna get back to doing little things for myself, big things, little things, throughout the week, uh, throughout the whole month, each week for myself." And then, you know, I found myself in ADHD burnout, and I knew I needed to take that off the table. And I think I've just kind of been accepting that. You know, ADHD burnout for me means that I need to find ways to make, uh, to decrease my decision-making, um, to automate a lot of stuff.
4:10 - 4:41
I usually give my... Like, when I'm trying to figure out what I'm wearing or something, or I don't know, um, trying to figure out something, I'll give myself like a, a three-minute timer to make that decision. Like, I can't spend a lot of executive function, that energy on that because that capacity is just not there. Um, and so this month was, was kind of a hard one for me, but I knew that towards the end of the month, I just needed to kind of, uh, work at accepting that this is the pace that I, that I'm at right now, and that needs to be honored.
4:42 - 5:14
And so for you, whatever pace you're... honors your capacity right now, I hope that you give yourself the permission, um, to work at that acceptance, to be in that pace and not judge yourself, um, and to do it compassionately. That doesn't mean that, like, you won't be sad. You... It doesn't mean you won't, um, feel angry. You know, all of, all of those feelings, whatever you feel, grief, sadness, anger, um, when you're moving and when you're doing life at a different pace, all of those feelings are valid.
5:14 - 5:46
Acknowledge them. It- they deserve to be honored. But at the end of the day, I hope that you just allow yourself to, to be, to work in that pace, to live in that pace compassionately. Um, today's episode, I'm really excited. I know I say that every, um, every, uh, I think just about every episode, but I've been thinking about this episode and planning it for a while, and it... I'm just ha- I'm just so overjoyed that I have the capacity to do it today.
5:46 - 6:33
So, um, today's episode is all about prayer and how to approach prayer when prayer feels like a demand. And I definitely think as Christians who are neurodivergent- Um, there are certain things that we know we're supposed to do, like, you know, pray, read the Bible, spend time with God. But I think because of our nervous systems are almost so tapped out by demands, um, especially if you have the PDA behavioral profile, um, receiving any type of demand, whether you want to do it or not, can, can, can be scary, right?
6:33 - 7:04
It can be... You can feel and face a lot of resistance, and I feel especially as a Christian neurodivergent, you might start to have thoughts like, "Ugh, what is wrong with me? I'm supposed to want to do this. I'm supposed to be able to do this." And that's why I wanna talk about it, because I feel like it's not talked about enough. Number one, if you have felt like that, um, you know you're supposed to pray, but you're just like, "I don't want to.
7:04 - 7:38
It's another, it's another demand. It's something else that I have to do," I want you to know that it is okay to feel that way. And if anybody else has ever made you feel differently, then I'm really sorry. It is okay to have a nervous system response, especially, especially as a Christian neurodivergent, um, to prayer. When it feels like a demand, like, it is, it is totally okay. There is nothing, quote unquote, "wrong with you." There is nothing, um...
7:38 - 8:09
You don't need to try harder. You, you know, like, God's not looking at you and be like, "Oh, if they only just tried harder to pray, you know, I would be happy with them." No, no, no, no. God is not looking at you, um, and having, having those thoughts towards you. Regardless of whatever our experience is, as His children, God sees us as beloved. Right? Like, even, even when we have those thoughts like, "Ugh, I don't want to pray right now. It's just something else," God is like, "Well, you know what?
8:09 - 8:41
You're still my beloved." "I, I am still so, so happy that Jesus died for you. I am so, so happy that you and I will never be separated." You know, God is still having those loving thoughts towards you and about you. So for context, um, I want to start at, uh, First Thessalonians chapter five 17. This is Paul. He's writing to, uh, Thessalonica, the believers in Thessalonica.
8:41 - 9:12
And in this part of his letter, he's kind of, he's talking about, right before this he talks about the resurrec- uh, the resurrection, and then also he talks about when Jesus is gonna come back and what that's gonna look like. And then he starts to give instructions on, um, what we can do as we're waiting. And he says this in verse 17, "Pray without ceasing." So the first thing to know is that this is not a literal command.
9:13 - 9:46
Um, pray without ceasing, it emphasizes the fact that we are supposed to have an ongoing conversation with God. And it's another way to say that prayer is a way to process life with God throughout our day. And I don't, I don't even wanna say throughout our day. Throughout our lives, uh, prayer is processing life with God. So practical application, what does that look like for us?
9:47 - 10:18
Something that has really, really helped me, um... Uh, I mean, I'm gonna give you a few things, but the first thing, I guess, is to, uh, talk to God like He is my best friend. I really try not to censor myself in prayer. Um, I tell God when I'm feeling angry at Him. I tell God when I'm feeling sad that something happened and wondering, "Where, where were you, God, when this happened?" I tell God everything, and I talk to Him like I am a friend.
10:18 - 11:00
I think it's important for us to do that because that helps us drop performance. You know, sometimes, especially as Christians, you might feel like you have to, um, say certain words or you have to, um, you know, speak with a certain cadence or at a s- a certain volume. And I wanna say that, like, prayer, prayer is supposed to be personal. So however you would talk to a friend, you can talk to God that way. Just, and like I said, I think this has just really helped me drop the performance, and when we do that, we're kind of nurturing our personal relationship with God.
11:02 - 11:36
Our relationship with God, it doesn't need to be imitated. You know, like what, what we think it's supposed to be or, like, what we've seen someone else do or say or communicate with Him. It's our relationship with Him. It's personal. God is a personal God. He... You know, we can drop the performance. Hallelujah. So talk to God like He is a friend. The second thing, um, that's really helped me, because I forget a lot of things, um, is I, um, I set reminders to pray, to pray sometimes.
11:36 - 12:09
Actually, every... It goes off every day. Um, and it's a reoccurring reminder. Um, in the morning it goes off and it reminds me to pray, because I will absolutely forget, and God's not upset if we forget to pray. But it goes off every day and it reminds me to pray. Um, something else, um, some other rhythms. Um, that's another thing. Like, I've tried to kind of look at praying as a rhythm, right? How can I get into the rhythm of processing my life with God?
12:09 - 12:41
The reminders definitely help. Um, journaling, writing down my prayers. I've said this before, um, on episodes, and this, this also helped me drop performance too, journaling my prayers and just, I, I write to God as if I'm, like, writing to, like, a pen pal, like I'm writing to a friend. Um, and sometimes it's, it's, it's rambling. It's... I ramble a lot in prayer, um, whether I'm journaling or whether I am saying it or thinking it.
12:42 - 13:21
Um, but getting into the rhythm of processing has definitely, journaling has definitely helped me kind of get into that rhythm, um, of sitting down, putting it on my calendar, blocking out, I don't know, five or 10 minutes, uh, to just journal, to write, to write to God. Um, setting reminders. Also, going on prayer walks. Um, I learned about this, like, a few years ago, and I thought it was just the coolest, the coolest thing. So people do this differently, and this is another way that you can make it personal, um, that you don't need to necessarily, you know, do what somebody else is doing.
13:21 - 14:05
But somebody, um, she told me that she, when she goes on a walk, she prays, I think it's, um, uh, Rachel, Rachel Anne. She was on a, um, I think a year ago on that episode, but she was talking about how she goes on prayer walks, and she'll pray for, like, the businesses that she walks past, or she'll pray for the people she's walking past, and I just thought that was such a, I don't know, a beautiful, everyday way to, to integrate, um, not just prayer, but also praying for others and, and praying for certain things around us.
14:05 - 14:41
And so, like I said, maybe for you that you can do that or, I don't know, maybe you're gonna... You can do it on the train or, um, just where- whatever you do in your daily life, um, when you're on your way to a destination, if you're able to, to pray for someone that you see, or you're able to pray for the car that's in front of you, um, are you able to pray for the restaurants that you're, that you're driving past. Um, I just absolutely loved that, that practical application.
14:42 - 15:14
And remember, it is okay if you start, if you start praying for someone, and then all of a sudden you're like, "Mm, I totally forgot I need to add trash bags to my grocery list." Like, God is not like, "Wait a minute. Whoa. What just happened? Like, I thought we were praying, and now we're ta-" God is not thrown off. He can absolutely follow our train of thought. He doesn't, He doesn't need any help keeping up. That's the beauty of us praying to our creator, right?
15:14 - 15:49
He knows us. He knows how our brains work. He knows us. He, God has known us. When we pray, we are praying to God, who has known us longer than anyone else, and He knows us better than anyone else. I heard that in a song. Have I talked about that song on this podcast before? I'm gonna link it. I'm writing myself a note, so I, I don't forget. Um, but it's this beautiful song by Jonathan, um, Ogden.
15:49 - 16:23
I think that's how you say his, his last name, and that's, that's one of the, the lines. He's talking to God, and he's like, "You've known me longer than anyone else, and you know me better than anyone else." And I just think that is such a beautiful way to remember our relationship with God. He knows us. So when we ramble, when, when we jump from subject to subject, right, when we go from praying to trying to figure out what we're gonna make for dinner, God is, He's, He's able to keep up without, like, He's, without skipping a beat.
16:23 - 16:57
He knows us. And then the third point that's really helped me, um, is understanding that processing life with God does not mean trying to decrease my neurodivergence, right? It doesn't be, doesn't mean becoming less neurodivergent in His presence or trying my best to be less neurodivergent in His presence. It doesn't. And again, that's because when you and I pray, we are talking to our creator, who knows us.
16:58 - 17:34
He formed us, so we don't need to become less of ourselves. We don't need to try to diminish or mask as we are praying to our creator. He, He knows us, and He's not put off or offended that we are neurodivergent. We can stim as we pray. Um, we can use a fidget item. We can, we can do all of that in His presence in general, but we can also especially do it during prayer.
17:37 - 18:14
I w- So over, um, last spring, I lost one of my favorite fidgets, and let me just say that all fidgets are not created equally. Like, I tried to replace it. I tried to use, um... And I, I purchased another fidget. Um, and I, I tried to replace it, but, like, it squeaked, and it made noise, and I was like, "Ugh, this is the worst." It was stiff and, like, it just, it just was not, it didn't, it didn't...
18:14 - 18:51
What is that expression? Hold a candle? No, hold a flame. Light a flame. It didn't- It didn't compare. It didn't compare to the fidget that I lost, and I was just like, "I don't know what I'm gonna do." Like, I don't, I don't know if, and if you're like this, but sometimes when something like that happens, I'm like, "Okay, great. What else is gonna, what else is gonna happen?" And so a few mo- fast-forward a few months, y'all, the fidget just randomly appeared in one of, in our, in our house.
18:52 - 19:30
Like, it just randomly, it just randomly appeared, and I was like, " God, look, it's here. Oh, my goodness. Thank you, God. I'm so excited. I can't believe..." I was so overjoyed, and I was just talking to God. I mean, I went on and on. I don't know how long, I don't know how long, just talking to God and being so excited, y'all. I still, when I think about it, when I hold that fidget sometimes, I'm just like, "Oh, God, do you remember that time when I felt so sad because I lost it?" And, like, I still go on and on to God about this fidget.
19:31 - 20:07
But that's, again, that's the beauty of our, of praying to our creator. We don't need to become less of ourselves when we pray to him. We can talk about our struggles with trying to find a fidget item. We can talk to him about trying to find a new coping skill for us or for our children or for somebody that we know. We can talk to him if we are in neurodivergent burnout. We can talk to him if we know that we have to engage in small talk that's coming up and we're starting to feel a little bit anxious about that.
20:07 - 20:43
We can talk to him whenever we are, uh, trying to make a decision, right, about which noise-canceling headphones to get. We can talk to him in sensory meltdowns, sensory overwhelm. We don't have to become less of our neurodivergent selves to talk to God. In summary, pray without ceasing. It is not a literal command. It's an invitation to us to have this ongoing conversation throughout our life that allows us to process life with our creator.
20:45 - 21:33
To do this practically, we can talk to God like he's our best friend, because he is. I'm gonna link that song. He's known us better and longer than anyone else. He is our best friend. We can talk to him, and we can tell him the stuff we would tell nobody else and know that we are still his beloved and we are still chosen, that he chose us. If you have a tendency to forget things, like me, out of sight, out of mind, like me, feel free to set a reminder on your phone, um, where maybe you're gonna block out time, a reoccurring reminder to journal, or maybe you're gonna try a prayer walk just on, as you're going about your day.
21:33 - 22:07
Maybe you're gonna give that a try. And lastly, we're gonna remember that processing life with God does not require, hallelujah, it doesn't require us to become less of our neurodivergent selves. We are his beloved. We have always been his beloved. As his neurodivergent children, we have always been chosen by him. I hope that this episode blesses you and encourages you.
22:08 - 22:39
Um, feel free to message me on Instagram. I will put my handle in the show notes, @deneamarable. Um, and let me know if you're, what, how are you gonna get into the rhythm of processing life with God? What, what might that look for you? And if it's still, if you, if you've listened to this episode and you're like, "All of this still feels like a demand," you know what the best thing you can do is? Talk to God about it. Talk to God about it.
22:39 - 23:15
Let him know, "God, you know what? I'm aware that I need to pray, but to be honest with you, it just feels like a demand and I, I, I need your wisdom. I need you to help, to guide me through this," and he will. That's the beauty of us praying to our creator. I will link the John, Jonathan Ogden song. I will also put, um, the link to the Bible course, the introduction, the foundational, um, biblical interpretation and hermeneutics course.
23:15 - 23:47
It's a course that I created that is neurodivergent-friendly. Um, this part's gonna be in two parts. Part one is up and live, and it just gives you foundational steps, uh, to biblical interpretation. Um, oh, I will also put the link to the book that I'm writing, This Mind of Mine. Y'all, we just finalized the cover. I cannot wait to share it with you. Oh, my goodness, I'm so excited.
23:47 - 24:03
Um, I cannot wait to share it with you. I love you. Talk to yourself compassionately. Treat yourself with care. Talk to God about any and everything, and I will talk to you next time.
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In this episode of The Neurodivergent Bible Teaching Podcast, I give a few ways to stim while studying the Bible. This isn’t an exhaustive list, but meant to give you some ideas. Whether you’re new to creating a habit of stimming or looking for new ways to stim during your study time, this episode will include some stims for you to consider.
Transcript:
0:02 - 0:38
Hello, it's Denea, your host of the NeuroDivergent Bible Teaching Podcast. This podcast is dedicated to helping you understand how to study the Bible. I'm Denee, I'm neurodivergent, I'm autistic, I have ADHD and OCD, and I know what it's like to struggle to understand how to study the Bible, let alone also honoring my brain while doing it. I've learned a few things through seminary, um, through life, and I want to share those things with you.
0:38 - 1:11
In this podcast, you will hear all about, um, studying techniques, some Bible studies so you can understand how to apply those techniques, some neurodivergent encouragement, and just some ways that I'm learning to honor the way that God has created my brain. I'm so happy that you're here. Let's get started.
Hello, hello, it's Denea, your host of the NeuroDivergent Bible Teaching Podcast.
1:12 - 1:43
I hope that wherever you are, you are allowing yourself to adjust any goals, any expectations that need to be adjust. And I hope that you're giving yourself grace to do that. Um, I am still recovering from, uh, surgery, from endometriosis excision surgery, and...
1:43 - 2:13
Well, hold on. Hold that, hold that thought. So we're on summer break as I'm recording this, and so I just wanna give a disclaimer that if you hear loud noises in the background, um, don't be alarmed. It's, it's just our son. N- it's just him having, having a good time. So I just, I just wanted to, to give that disclaimer. Um, okay, back to what I was, what I was saying. Wait, wait.
2:14 - 2:52
Oh, no, I c- I, I remember. Okay. So I am still recovering from endometriis- uh, endometriosis excision surgery. Um, and I, I mean, I, I will be recovering, I have to keep reminding myself from that f- for like months and months. Um, but, um, still in that process and, like, I've been trying to get myself back into the habit of, like, movement throughout my day because I, you know, haven't, haven't been moving that much.
2:53 - 3:25
I've been, I've been going on, like, short walks, but then, um, I think I've mentioned this, this on the podcast before, I have POTS and, um, I had, like, a POTS flare-up, uh, w- after surgery, which can happen, um, where I had a lot of divi- dizziness, so I just... I've been, like, n- I have not been moving. I've been allowing myself to just heal in short walks, um, and that sort of thing.
3:25 - 3:57
So now, you know, I'm not in, not in the POTS flare-up zone right now, and so I've been trying to get my body into the habit of movement. Um, I've been cleared for, to do strength training again. I do that a lot, primarily because I have Ehlers-Danlos syndrome, uh, and PCOS and scoliosis, and strength training really helps with those. Um, I guess it helps with POTS, too, and endometriosis, I guess. Um, anyways, I'm getting off topic.
3:58 - 4:45
So I've been cleared to, to move again. I've been cleared to go on longer walks. I've been cleared to strength train. And y'all, it's been so hard. It's been so hard getting back into the rhythm of movement. And, like, today, I have no idea why, but for whatever reason, y'all, I was like, "I am going to do 7,000 steps," and that was so unrealistic. Like, like, at, at the ti- I don't, I don't know. I think sometimes just, um, you know, those, those, like, perfectionist tendencies, high achievement tendencies always creep back in and then I have to, like, switch into another gear and be like, "Denee, no, no, no, no.
4:45 - 5:42
Like, that's not, this is not serving you." And so I had that moment today, uh, of like, okay, we need to adjust this and, and it's not wrong to adjust this. It's, it's just, it just needs to happen be- because you need to give yourself grace, and having that 7,000 step goal is just not serving you. Um, and so I hope that whatever goal you have right now, whether it's something you're trying to achieve today, this week, this month, this year, you know, I hope that you give yourself grace to, um, to step back and ask yourself, "Does this need to be adjusted?" And I hope that when you're, when you're looking at or you're thinking about that goal, when you're, when you're in that process, I hope that you know that adjusting a goal is not proof that, like, you failed or that you should've tried harder.
5:42 - 6:27
No, no, no, no, no. Adjusting a goal is a way that we can actually, um, care for our needs, care for ourselves, right? It's, it's kinda like having your back. Um, and so I hope wherever you are, you're, you're allowing yourself to do that. Today's episode is to give you some ideas of how you can stem- While you were studying God's word, while you're studying the Bible. I think as someone, uh, I mean, I've, I've said before, like I, I knew when I was like an adolescent that I was different, but I wasn't formally diagnosed, um, with autism, ADHD, OCD, complex PTSD.
6:27 - 7:03
I wasn't formally diagnosed with those things, with PDA, with, um, rejection sensitive dysphoria until like my mid-30s. And that also means that like I've... I mean, I, I have, I've had stims, um, but getting into the habit of intentionally stimming throughout my day, throughout my study time, that has taken practice. And, you know, whether I'm studying for like school or whether I'm studying the Bible, I've had to remind myself...
7:03 - 7:43
Yes? Um, can you play with me? Uh, if you give me 20 minutes, I can. Okay. Okay. Can you close that door please? Thank you. All right. Um, oh my goodness, what was I saying? It has taken practice to get into the habit of stimming. Um, I've set reminders on my phone reminding me to stim. I mean, there are times when I just kind of, uh, it's my body's response, like rocking back and forth, um, or humming or flapping my hands, doing something with my hands, pacing, uh, rubbing my feet together.
7:43 - 8:22
Like, those are some things that I kind of do, but especially I find that especially when I am studying anything, when I have to sit down for long periods of focus, um, it is really important for me to stim. And so I've been, you know, trying to really, uh, to do that while I'm studying the Bible. Now, depending on your, um, your relationship with, uh, I'm trying to figure out how to say this.
8:22 - 8:53
So stimming while studying God's word can sometimes be hard for, c- is sometimes hard for us. One, may- maybe you're like me and you were diagnosed as adult, an adult, and you're just... Like you've suppressed a lot of stimming throughout your life, just not even knowing it. Um, and so you're trying to actually get into the habit of stimming, um, a lot in general, but maybe also like you, it's a, you, you know that it's, it's very beneficial for you to stim while you're studying. Um, I meant like me.
8:53 - 9:36
Maybe you know like me, um, that it's important for you to stim while you're studying. But I think it's also, it can be tough because as, as Christians who are neurodivergent, you might have heard, you might have been exposed to toxic theology or ableism that has led you to believe that being neurodivergent is something wrong or something to be ashamed of. And so maybe when you're in God's presence, whether you're worshiping, whether you're praying, whether you're reading the Bible, you try to hide that you're neurodivergent, neurodivergence from God.
9:37 - 10:17
And so if that is you, you know, stimming while you're reading his word might really feel odd. And so I just wanna meet you in that place and just say, if that is you, I see you, and that is a really tough place to be in. As somebody who has been exposed to toxic theology, somebody who has been exposed to ableism, who has internalized ableism, and who has believed at one point that my existence was wrong, that there was something wrong with me, there was absolutely a period where I would hide my neurodivergence from God.
10:17 - 10:50
Now, of course, you know, we're not hiding, we're not really hiding anything from God. G- He knows everything. He knows us completely and fully. There's nowhere we could go to hide from him, right? But also, it's important for us to know that God, that neurodivergence is nothing to be ashamed about, right? Scripture says, and scripture has the ultimate authority. It's God's word. It says, right, that as, as humans, that we were fearfully and wonderfully created.
10:50 - 11:43
There, there's no asterisk by that, that, those scriptures that talk, that, that talks about how intentional God was with creation. It, we believe His word. We take it for what it says because it's God's word, right? So it's also important for us to understand that there is actually nothing shameful about being neurodivergent. Um, I could go on a tangent here and say the real shame or the real tragedy, error is, is the fact that neurodivergent families, uh, individuals aren't given the support that we need to thrive, but I won't go on that tangent because, because I try to the best of my ability to really make these episodes bite-sized, uh, so I won't go on that tangent.
11:43 - 12:16
But it is important for us to know that there is nothing wrong with being neurodivergent. We can stim in God's presence. We can stim in prayer. We can stim while we're worshiping. We can stim while we're reading the Bible. So this is gonna be kind of a quick one. I'm just... This is a list. So pause as you need to, maybe take notes as you need to. Uh, rewind as you need to. Maybe fast forward if you need to. This by no means is an exhaustive list, okay?
12:16 - 12:51
This is just some ideas to, um, to give you. And I also want to say, too, that some of these are easier done, like, if you're listening to the, to the Bible, like audio, um, versus actually holding the Bible in your hands. And so I want you to also just keep that in mind. Okay, with all that being said, squeeze putty. I have started doing this and, like, it's so soothing, especially the kind where they, like, hide little trinkets in the putty.
12:51 - 13:22
Love it. Squeeze putty. Use your favorite fidget. Some of my favorite fidgets are by, uh, oh boy, I'm gonna get the name wrong. Tangles? Ugh. I love them because number one, they're quiet. They don't make that squeaking noise. And they're really flexible. Love it. Hum. Uh, you can hum your favorite song. You can hum a melody that you just made up. You can hum. Rock back and forth.
13:23 - 13:54
One of my favorites. Drum your fingers on the desk, on the table, on the chair, on your leg. Pace around the room. Listen to your favorite song on repeat. Y'all, this is a version, this is a way of stimming that I've done, I don't know, since I was, like, a teenager. I will absolutely repeat a song over and over again. And now I know why. It's a, it's a way to stim. Um, it really helps with, with emotional regulation.
13:54 - 14:24
But yeah, listen, listen to your favorite song, um, on repeat while you're studying. Um, or you can listen to verses. I've talked about them before. They're a music group that's, that sings the scriptures. Uh, and so maybe you wanna, like, put, put one of their songs on repeat. Sway back and forth. Cr- uh, chew on a crunchy snack. Rub your feet together. Oh, I love doing that. Watch a spinning object.
14:25 - 15:06
So, like, those visual, uh, globes. I think that's what it's called. Or, uh, we have some in our house. The... Why can't I... My words are just, like, not coming today. Uh, the lights that kind of move, like, on the ceiling. You know what I'm talking about. Uh, click a pen. Bounce your leg up and down. Repeat a word or a phrase. I do that from time to time. It's very, very soothing. Rub a textured fabric. And I didn't put it on here, um, but as a last, last one, and again, this is not an exhaustive list, um, use a weighted blanket.
15:06 - 15:44
Absolutely love using my weighted, weighted blanket. Um, and again, this list, it was just to give you some ideas. It's to encourage you to try s- try some out. Try, try some stims out, and I would love to hear what works for you. I posted, um, on Instagram, like, how do you stim while you study the Bible? And people, you know, some of them said things that were on this list. Some of them said chew gum, and I was like, "Oh, that's a good one." Um, try, try some of these out, and I would love to hear from you on Instagram.
15:44 - 16:17
I will put my Instagram link, uh, in the show notes. Um, message me. Let me know. I would love to know what are some ways that you stim, or if you haven't, what are you going to try? Um, how do you stim while you read God's Word? And I hope that as you're trying it out, I hope that maybe as you, maybe you've, you've stimmed all along. Maybe you're like, "Oh, I can maybe add some more just to change it up a little bit." I hope you know, I want you to know that God is more than okay with you stimming.
16:17 - 16:49
God wants your, our neurodivergent needs to be met. He does. I think it is so important for us to understand that God, God is not ableist. He is not. He wants our neurodivergent needs to be met. So, I will put, uh, the link to my Instagram. Please message me and let me know, or you can comment, especially if you're listening to this on Spotify.
16:49 - 17:27
You can comment under this episode how you stim, and I'll respond back to it. I will also put in the link, I will also put in the show notes a link to, um, the Bible studying course, the foundational biblical interpretation and hermeneutics course, um, that I finished, and I will put that link, um, in the show notes as well. It kind of walks you through the foundational steps of interpreting the Bible with, while knowing that the Bible has, like, full authority, um, over our opinions, over worldviews, all that stuff.
17:29 - 18:02
I love you. I really hope and pray that you know, yes, we, hallelujah, we can stim in God's presence. He's, He's more than okay with that. We are neurodivergent, and we are His children. We are fearfully made and wonderfully made. We are His creation. I love you. Take care of yourself. I will talk to you next time. Oh, also, the transcript as well will be in the show notes.
18:02 - 18:03
Okay, I love you. Talk to you next time.
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On this episode of The Neurodivergent Bible Teaching Podcast, I talk about how we can navigate seasons where we’re waiting for our neurodivergent needs to be met. What are practical ways we can stay grounded in God’s character during seasons like this?
Transcript:
0:02 - 0:38
Podcast Intro:
Hello, it's Denea your host of the Neurodivergent Bible Teaching Podcast. This podcast is dedicated to helping you understand how to study the Bible. I'm Denea. I'm neurodivergent. I'm autistic. I have ADHD and OCD, and I know what it's like to struggle to understand how to study the Bible, let alone also honoring my brain while doing it. I've learned a few things through seminary, um, through life, and I want to share those things with you.
0:38 - 1:14
In this podcast, you will hear all about, um, studying techniques, some Bible studies so you can understand how to apply those techniques, some neurodivergent encouragement, and just some ways that I'm learning to honor the way that God has created my brain. I'm so happy that you're here. Let's get started.
Episode Begins:
Hello, hello, it's Denea, your host of the Neurodivergent Bible Teaching Podcast.
1:15 - 1:50
And I hope you're doing well. Definitely, I, I hope that you are giving yourself grace. Um, and I hope that you are delighting in whatever joy comes your way. I'm currently, uh, drinking a matcha that has some non-dairy, non-gluten, pumpkin spice flavored, low-toxic creamer, oat milk creamer.
1:51 - 2:24
And I know to some of you listening, you're like, "Oh, my gosh, that actually sounds pretty gross." But about a few years ago, I gave up coffee, and so green tea, matcha, that's kind of the only caffeine, you know, that I get. And in case y'all don't know this about me, I love everything fall related. Um, give me all of the pumpkin spice. Give me give me all of the cinnamon, apple flake.
2:24 - 2:54
Give it. I want it all. And, um, I was like, "You know what? I'm just, I'm just gonna treat myself to just this delight, this little joy." And so whatever that is for you, I hope that you lean into it. Um, as a disclaimer, we are still on summer break, and so that also means that our son is home. And so every now and then you might hear some vocal stimming. You might hear some loud noises on this podcast episode.
2:55 - 3:35
Do not be alarmed. I just want to give you, um, the heads-up. Today's episode was kind of, is kind of inspired by me, um... So I'm currently, I just started studying, uh, Deuteronomy again. And in studying this, I'm, like, in the, I think, the second chapter, so it's the very, very beginning of it. I'm studying this book again, and I noticed this pattern of, like, the Israelites complaining.
3:36 - 4:09
Um, they're worried about their provision, being provided for. They're worried about their needs. And I noticed that pattern, that when they do that, Moses often recalls what God has done as, as a way to remind them of the faithfulness of God's provision and God being provider, it's who he is, and that they can trust that.
4:11 - 4:42
And I'll be honest with you, I don't know how my mind connected connected this. Um, I think that, I definitely feel like I was kind of led by the Holy Spirit to think along these lines of just as neurodivergents, how we often kind of feel that way, right? Like, we, we have needs, very valid needs. We, we need support. We deserve support.
4:43 - 5:16
And what do you do when you're in a season, and a season, when I say that, it could be a week. A season, it could be three months. A season could be 10 years. What do you do when you're in a season of just worrying, constant overwhelming, I'm talking anxiety-filled, maybe even dread-filled worry about getting your neurodivergent needs provided for?
5:17 - 5:50
Like, fro- from a faith perspective, what are some steps that we can take in those seasons, in everyday moments when that overwhelm, when that anxiety, when that very valid worry takes over? And I think one thing that I've learned, 'cause I've, I've definitely, and I may or may not have shared, um, this in the, the podcast.
5:51 - 6:26
I've, I've shared it on, like, my Substack and social media. But I'm somebody who is always feeling overwhelmed. Like, always. I've, my therapist asked me the other day, she was like, "Dené, can you tell me about a time when you didn't feel overwhelmed?" I was like, I've ma- I guess elementary school, like I've been overwhelmed. I have a vivid memory of feeling overwhelmed in middle school, um, like changing classes.
6:28 - 6:58
And, you know, and, and the bell goes off, and then you have to, like, gather your stuff, and then you, you know, am, am I gonna be able to gather my stuff in time? Oh, wait a minute, I need to use the bathroom. Oh, wait a minute, I need to go to the locker. Oh my gosh, I need to go by the front office to drop that thing off. And then, like, I f- I think you had to do all of that within the span of 10 minutes. Like, I, I very vividly remember th- just feeling overwhelmed by that, that sensory, that quick transition.
6:59 - 7:38
Um, and I was like, I, I constantly feel overwhelmed. And, and so I'm just trying to figure out what, how, how to support that. Um, I've been praying about it. I have called a few different organizations, gotten on wait lists for, for certain things that could be supportive. And I think that as far as being neurodivergent, you know, this world is very much still learning how to support us, and that often leaves us with a gap, right, of waiting.
7:39 - 8:10
And in that waiting, what, what do we do? How do we strengthen our faith? We often have to overcome waiting through inaccessible resources. Uh, because just because there's a resource, you know, if it's not accessible, it's, it's not really supportive, right? Like, if there's a resource that costs thousands and thousands of dollars, it's not accessible. Most people only in certain tax brackets can afford that.
8:10 - 8:44
We often have to overcome those challenges. We often have to co- overcome, um, organizations that do support us, they're overworked, right, and lack of funding. So that means, uh, usually means, uh, that we're on a wait list, a long wait list. And so what... How, how do we, as Christians who are also neurodivergent, whose needs deserve to be met, whose, whose needs should be met, how do we strengthen our faith during those tough times?
8:46 - 9:24
And one thing I noticed just in, in studying Deuter- Deuteronomy, and it, I mean, it honestly happens in the, um, in the other books as well, but what... I've just noticed a pattern of the Israelites feeling worried, and then Moses reminding them of what God has done for them. And I think one of the first practical steps for us, um, is to, you know, in those moments, I think it's, it's okay to go to God and lament.
9:26 - 9:58
And we have to understand that l- lamenting, uh... It, lament and complaining are, are two different things. Like, it's a heart pos- the heart posture is different. Where complaining, which in full transparent, in full transparency, I have, I have had both heart postures. I have gone to God complaining, um, with a heart posture that's like, "God, I don't... If you would've just worked this out, how, you know...
9:58 - 10:28
Like, this is how I would've worked it out. Like, I don't understand why you didn't do that. This is how it should've been." You know, having that heart posture as if I'm in control versus lament, which I've, um, again, I've, I've been on... I've done both. Um, lamenting and saying, "God, I am just filled with grief, anger, sadness. I don't get it. I feel angry that this didn't work out. I feel so irritated.
10:28 - 11:09
I feel, I'm grieved that this happened, and yet I know you are God." Right? Those are two different heart postures. I think the first very practical step is for us to know that it is okay for us to lament and go to God about the needs that are not being met. And I think this is so important for, for us to articulate, especially as Christians who are neurodivergent, because there is such a shame narrative, unfortunately, around being neurodivergent.
11:10 - 11:41
You see it sometimes in church culture. You definitely see it from the world. And when we internalize that, which I did a episode a few episodes ago, um, about how, how I've internalized that and how I kind of had to, like, work, work through uprooting that. Um, when we internalize it, we start to hide certain things from God about being neurodivergent, right? Like, we start to think we cannot go to Him with those things, when that is not true.
11:42 - 12:14
Um, God wants to hear about those things, and I think it's also important for us to under- understand that God actually delights when our neurodivergent needs are met. And so I think that's one of the reasons why it is so important for us to lament and go to God and tell Him that we're disappointed that we're still, you know, having to make phone calls to insurance, that we're still on this wait list, that we don't understand why He's working it out this way, and yet He is God.
12:14 - 12:46
I think it is so important because it helps us articulate our neurodivergent experiences to God. And that is so important, especially if you have internalized shame, internalized ableism around being neurodivergent from church culture or from this world. Talk to God about your neurodivergent experience in general, but also talk to God and lament about the frustrations that you have about your needs not being met, about you not having the support that you need.
12:48 - 13:26
And then the next thing that, that is important, I think, is reminding ourselves of what God has done. Now, this is not bypassing, you know, our reality. You know, like, sometimes you, you hear people being like, "Oh, well, you know, I don't, um, you know, I'm... I don't know. I'm feeling very sad, but hey, you know, God is good. God is faithful. I won't complain. Hey." And it's almost like a reaction. While those things are true, their reaction or response, what, what it's rooted in is important, right?
13:26 - 13:59
Like, those, those statements are true, but if it's rooted in bypassing our reality, we have to understand that God doesn't want us to bypass how we feel, our reality, our situation, our circumstance. We can't, again, lament and talk to God about our frustrations. This reminder of what God has done, it's more so, I think, in recognition of, hey, my needs are not being met right now.
14:02 - 14:54
But because of who God is and because of what he has done in the past for me, for someone else, I can trust his character. I have no idea what's gonna happen in the future. I d- I have no idea how this need is going to be supported. I don't, I don't know how it's going to come. I have no idea. I have no idea, but what I have to trust in is God's character, that either he's going to provide exactly what I need or he's gonna provide me with the endurance, or he's gonna provide me with the encouragement, or he's gonna provide me with, um, with the confirmation through, through nature that he sees me, that he know- Like, he's going to provide me a confirmation through his word.
14:55 - 15:39
We can trust that God provides. We don't know how, but we can trust it. And I think when we remind ourselves of what God has done, when it's rooted in that, it's totally different than bypassing our reality. So one thing that I frequently remind myself of, of just, uh, what God has done, um, is just my sobriety journey. Like, there was a time, oh, man, when I wanted to be sober from alcohol so bad, and I was just like, "I- it's impossible." Like, "I don't, I don't actually see how, how that would even happen." Like, I, I didn't...
15:39 - 16:21
Like, it just did... It, it didn't seem like something that could happen for me. And I'm here, like, three, three and a half years sober from alcohol. Like, I remind myself of that miracle. Has it been easy? Absolutely not. But it's still a miracle that God performed, that God is performing in me. Um, I might think about how he's shown up for someone else, or sometimes, you know, I'll just, I'll just be watching the birds, and I'll be like, " There's God providing again." You know, like, that, that is who he is.
16:21 - 16:54
He even provides for the sparrow, right? He even provides for the birds of the air. There, there he is again, being provider. And so, uh, just get maybe one or two things that, that God has done for you or for someone else just to remind your soul you might not know how this is gonna work out. You don't know, right? Right? Like, we, we don't know. We do not have that capability as humans.
16:56 - 17:36
But one thing we can trust is God's character and that he provides. We don't know what that provision is going to look like, but we can trust that even when our neurodivergent needs are not being met, we can trust in God's provision. And I wanna say this, too, that that is a very... This is, this is hard, what I'm saying. And it's tough because it's, it kind of is asking us to live in the tension of realizing, hey, I have needs that deserve to be met, that should be met, that are not being met.
17:36 - 18:06
I'm in need. And yet, God, I know it would be so easy for you to do this, right? Like, that is a very tough tension to be in. That's a very tough spot to be in. So while you're doing this, while you're trying, while you're lamenting, and while you're trying to remind yourself of what God has done, if you find yourself feeling frustrated with anything that comes up, if you find yourself maybe feeling disappointed because you're like, "Oh, my gosh.
18:06 - 18:42
I feel so ungrateful," go to God with those feelings, too, because God knows how tough it is for us to live in the tension of being in need, right, having lack, and yet recognizing that he's sovereign and that he's God. He knows that is a tough place to be in. So go to God with whatever comes up. Be gentle and compassionate with yourself if you're feeling frustrated or ungrateful, or if the exercise just makes you feel icky.
18:43 - 19:19
Go to God with, with whatever comes up, and he can handle it. And not only that, when we do that, God meets us with compassion. But also, when we, when we go to God with that, that tough stuff like that, I find, and I'm speaking just for me, I think that that nurtures h- my, like, having a personal relationship with God. When I go to him with that stuff that I don't, I wouldn't tell anybody with the feelings that I have or when I'm like, like, "Ugh, I don't...
19:19 - 19:51
I'm, I'm having conflicting feelings right now. Like, I don't know what to do with this," and I go to God with the hard stuff like that, it just... And I find that he s- uh, and I'm reminded that he still loves me, that he still cares for me, that he's still here, um, that he's not frustrated with me. I'm like, "Oh, my goodness. This is agape love." Right? It strengthens how... It strengthens our personal relationship with God. So I just wanted to remind you, you don't, you don't have to hide that from him.
19:51 - 20:23
You can, oh, you can go to him with, with the tough stuff, too, even while you're trying to do this exercise, while you're trying to lament, while you're trying to, to remind your, your soul of the things that God has done. Go to him with whatever comes up. I love you, and I hope that you take care of yourself, and I hope that you know that God is a safe place for you to lament, and he's a safe place for you to go to with all of the hard and difficult things.
20:24 - 20:55
Uh, as always, the transcript will be in the show notes. Um, the foundational biblical interpretation hermeneutics course, um, is actually finished. I don't even know... I don't even think I talked about that on the podcast because I finished it, y'all. I finished it right before I had surgery for endometriosis. I don't even know if I talked about that on this podcast because it, like... I knew it was coming, but, like, you know, you have to get ready for surgery, and you have to buy your recovery stuff.
20:55 - 21:34
But then also, it was summer break, and, like, I'm trying to coordinate things for our son to still have a good summer break. And then also, it, like, I was recovering over his birthday, so I was still trying to recover that. And then I'm trying to, um... And we're in the editing phase, or actually revising phase of This Mind of Mine, the book, the devotional that I'm writing, um, to help to kind of guide other Christian neurodivergents on how to embrace our identity through Christ and use scripture to navigate shame, which, oh, my goodness, I don't even know if I've talked about that.
21:34 - 22:07
I will link that in the show notes as well. Y'all, just if anybody is listening who has chronic illness, if, you know how, like, that can be with just things, ah, constantly coming up, and you still have to do life, right? Like, you s- you still have to do life. And so, um, I pr- um, there's a chance that I might not have talked about that book. I will possibly do an episode about it. Um, but I will link that information about the book.
22:07 - 22:24
I will link the, uh... The transcript will also be in the show notes, but I will also link the Bible course, the Bible studying course that's available, um, in the show notes as well. All right. I love you. Take care of yourself, and I will talk to you next time.
Bible Study Course: https://www.deneamarable.com/foundational-biblical-interpretation-and-hermeneutics-course
This Mind of Mine Devotional: https://www.instagram.com/p/DbUQI8ekV35/?igsi=MWpsbHBxaHJlb3g5bg==

Character Study Reference: https://www.instagram.com/p/DZ_KgxPERw0/?igsh=MXhuYTk0dDdhcGJnaw==
Denea (00:00)
Hello, it's Denea, your host of the Neurodivergent Bible Teaching Podcast. This podcast is dedicated to helping you understand how to study the Bible. I'm Denea, I'm Neurodivergent, I'm autistic, I have ADHD and OCD, and I know what it's like to struggle ⁓ to understand how to study the Bible, ⁓ let alone also ⁓ honoring my brain while doing it.
Denea (00:31)
I've learned a few things through seminary, ⁓ through life, and I want to share those things with you. ⁓ And this podcast, you will hear all about ⁓ studying techniques, some Bible studies, so you can understand how to apply those techniques, some neurodivergent encouragement, and just some ways that I'm learning to honor the way that God has created my brain. I'm so ⁓ happy that you're here. Let's get started.
Denea (01:04)
Hello, hello, it's Denea, ⁓ your host of the Neurodivergent Bible Teaching Podcast. I hope that you ⁓ are ⁓ um ⁓ honoring rhythms of rest wherever you are. ⁓ This week ⁓ for me was just it's been filled with a lot of tests. I think I've mentioned on the podcast before um ⁓ that I have ⁓ multiple chronic. ⁓
Denea (01:35)
health conditions and just to to say this, ⁓ when I s when I mention or speak of chronic ⁓ illnesses or chronic health conditions, ⁓ I do not ⁓ I I don't include like being autistic and ADHD, ⁓ O C D ⁓ complex P T S D I don't I don't include I'd for me, I do not consider those to be chronic health conditions or chronic
Denea (02:04)
⁓ illnesses. So ⁓ what I mean by those, ⁓ just to clarify, and I think I've I've mentioned them on the podcast before, but ⁓ I have Ellers Danlow syndrome, Potts, Mast cell activation syndrome, ⁓ PMOS, endometriosis, scoliosis, ⁓ sleep apnea, and ⁓ suspected narcolepsy. ⁓ And this week was ⁓
Denea (02:34)
just kind of filled with doing tests for those. I actually had my narcolepsy sleep study ⁓ this week and then I had another GI test that I had to do. ⁓ And I think ⁓ I don't I don't know why ⁓ I thought doing all of this in the same week was a good idea. ⁓ I think at the time ⁓ I was like, all right, let me let me just do them during the same week and just knock them out. You know, get get done. ⁓
Denea (03:04)
⁓ I I did kind of ⁓ schedule today to kind of be a what I c what I usually call like a a low battery day. So I did ⁓ kind of schedule that rhythm of rest, but I I I have no idea. Looking back, I shouldn't have had these tests in in the same week. So I hope that you are ⁓
Denea (03:31)
Honoring a rhythm of rest this week, whatever that looks like for you. ⁓ maybe you have a doctor's appointment and instead ⁓ of ⁓ just, you know, powering through because doctor's appointments, whether it's a doctor you've seen before, w a new doctor, ⁓ whether it's testing, they're not easy. And our our brains deserve a break for processing. ⁓ so I hope that maybe after that appointment you're just gonna ⁓
Denea (04:01)
Give you maybe it's five minutes of just doing nothing, or maybe it's five minutes of ⁓ engaging with your special interest or something that you're currently deep diving right now. ⁓ whatever a rhythm of rest looks like for you, ⁓ I hope that you're able to give yourself just a few minutes of that and just honor that this week. ⁓ today's podcast episode is going to be about doing character studies.
Denea (04:31)
So ⁓ a couple weeks ago I did a a post. ⁓ Well, I guess it depends on when you're listening to this recording. It might be long ⁓ it might be longer than a couple of weeks ago. But ⁓ for context of where this is coming from, a couple weeks ago I ⁓ posted something on Instagram about doing a character study.
Denea (04:55)
⁓ And I got some questions and so I was like, well maybe I think maybe this would be a a great podcast episode to talk about doing character studies. So ⁓ one reason why I think doing a character study is really, really good, ⁓ especially for neurodivergence is because we we rely heavily on context.
Denea (05:22)
Right in in life, in in social situations, ⁓ and and how we solve problems and come up with solutions. Context matters. And I think that especially or I know especially when it comes to Bible study, ⁓ that's such ⁓ it's a great thing, it's not talked about enough, but that is ⁓ such a skill to have, to be seeking
Denea (05:49)
Context to rely on context because what that does, and I think I've said this on the podcast before, but what that does is it it helps us actually practice biblical literacy skills. ⁓ And biblical liter literacy is something that ⁓ is usually typically taught like in seminary or ⁓ you know, maybe if you if you know someone who
Denea (06:17)
talks about it, you might you might have like heard about using those skills before, but it's not talked about ⁓ often, often enough, but when we when we use biblical literacy skills, ⁓ we are ⁓ approaching the Bible and understanding that on our part, our job is to ⁓ study, comprehend, ⁓ and apply God's word the way He intended it, not us.
Denea (06:44)
Right, not based off of opinion or a worldview. ⁓ And biblical literacy skills actually help us do that. ⁓ getting context helps us do that. So I think it is so important for neurodivergence, especially for us when we're approaching Bible study, to know that's such a beautiful thing to gain, to have that desire of gaining context. And I think, like if I kind of think about it.
Denea (07:13)
I do this without knowing it, and you probably do too. ⁓ it's just something that our that our brains have have relied on, right? Navigating this world. And so when it comes to the Bible, I think that is such a beautiful thing. And one of the ways ⁓ that we can utilize that is through a character study. Okay. ⁓ What is a character study? ⁓ So a character study is basically when we do a deep dive on a a ⁓ a
Denea (07:41)
Character, somebody, I say character, ⁓ but I mean, as you know, the people in the Bible, they were real. ⁓ so ⁓ should I call it a people study, a biblical person study? I don't know. Still working, still still working on the name. ⁓ But it's when we research, we do a deep dive ⁓ on their background, ⁓ their attributes. When were they mentioned in scripture? What did they do?
Denea (08:11)
⁓ what what can we learn from their life? How did God use them? ⁓ And ⁓ I'm gonna break this down. Now I should say to you, some people do this using a timeline, like they make a timeline of the person's life. ⁓ I will be honest with you, I don't usually do that. You can. ⁓ I do not, so I won't really be talking about the timeline. I'm more so gonna be talking about
Denea (08:38)
the framework of what this would look like. And then I'm gonna post, I'm gonna, ⁓ in the show notes, ⁓ I'm actually gonna post a link to ⁓ the Instagram post so that way you can actually see what I'm talking about. ⁓ Okay. So we're gonna identify the character or the person. ⁓ And ⁓ and I'll also go over an example too. ⁓ we're gonna identify the character, then we're going to ⁓
Denea (09:08)
⁓ locate ⁓ where where were they referenced in the Bible. You can get as specific as you would like. You can just say Old Testament, New Testament, ⁓ or you can actually put like the book, the scripture, the the chapter, the verse, you can do that too. ⁓ I will say I think it's really cool to ⁓ when you can
Denea (09:37)
I think it's really cool to ⁓ see someone who's mentioned ⁓ in the Old Testament. And then ⁓ like you're you're reading the New Testament all of a sudden, and then like you you see their name and you're like, my goodness, hey, hey, I ⁓ I I know that person. ⁓ So I do ⁓ so I I think it depends on a lot of things. It depends on where where you are at capacity. ⁓
Denea (10:04)
Right in in br and if you're in neurodivergent burnout, ⁓ don't your focus right now is not being specific. ⁓ Right? We're that's ⁓ that's not the focus. ⁓ if you have the capacity ⁓ and you're doing a deep dive and you're like, you know what, I'm gonna see where this all all of the per the places, ⁓ there are great study tools that you can use, like a study bible. ⁓ I think a concordance can also help with that, but
Denea (10:34)
Getting ⁓ putting down, writing down where they're ⁓ mentioned in the Bible kind of also helps us actually understand how they fit into ⁓ the Bible, the Bible story, if you will. ⁓ I again I I don't want to call it a the Bible story, because it I mean it was real, but you know what I mean, the Bible, the narrative of the Bible. ⁓ okay, so we've gotten ⁓ the person, we've gotten ⁓ where they were referenced. ⁓
Denea (11:03)
And then we're going to look into ⁓ that person's culture if we can't, like what we know about them. And again, I'm gonna go over what this looks like. ⁓ but this also is important because this can really help us put together the pieces of understanding how God used them. ⁓ outlining next, we're gonna outline their life. Sometimes we won't have this information.
Denea (11:32)
⁓ sometimes we'll have this information just based off of the historical and cultural background. So ⁓ I think that third step is honestly just kind of a a mix, depending on who the character is, ⁓ of establishing like ⁓ b biblical or not biblical, I'm sorry, historical, cultural context and ⁓
Denea (11:54)
Outlining their life. That might sometimes look like one step depending on who it is, or that could be multiple steps depending on who you're you're deep diving. ⁓ the next is going to be looking at the traits ⁓ of that person. ⁓ what was mentioned about them? ⁓ What was said about them? What adjectives were used to describe that person? ⁓ Again, this can be really, really helpful.
Denea (12:22)
in understanding how they were how God used them. And then the last step that we're gonna do is we are going to ⁓ look at what we've gathered and then we're gonna ask ourselves, like, ⁓ what what have I learned about them and how can I actually apply this to my own life? Okay. ⁓ So again, just to recap, we're gonna identify ⁓ who who we're doing research on. As a side note, I got really excited ⁓
Denea (12:51)
When I started doing this because I was like, this feels like a book report. ⁓ And a fun fact about me is that ⁓ y'all, I love doing book reports. I always have. I I always have. ⁓ like give me give me an opportunity ⁓ to what is that ⁓ what is that called? A trifold pollster? Give me an opportunity.
Denea (13:20)
to ⁓ have to like ⁓ decorate one of those or put facts on one of those. ⁓ And like there's sometimes, I'll be honest with you, I just want to to go to the store and get one just just to like relive that. ⁓ so ⁓ I ⁓ I like this is basically a book report of what we're doing. ⁓ Anyways, I'm sorry for that tantit.
Denea (13:44)
⁓ actually, you know what? I'm not sorry. Cause you you are you guys are my people. So I know that you get me. Even if that's not your experience, like I know sometimes the references and things that I say, I know you guys are like, yeah, girl, we ⁓ we get you. Okay. So to recap, before I give you an example, we're gonna identify the person that we're we're doing this this book report on, this research on, right? ⁓ And then we're going to locate where they were referenced.
Denea (14:12)
Throughout the Bible. Again, this can look like whatever it needs to look like for you. You can be specific, you can be just say Old Testament, New Testament, you can ⁓ say like the gospel, like whatever this needs to look like for you. ⁓ step three ⁓ can sometimes be combined with ⁓ another step. So this is gonna include us getting cultural, historical context, any political, ⁓
Denea (14:41)
Maybe they they lived especially I mean there were ⁓ obviously there are other political narratives in the Bible, but the first one that I that I'm thinking about ⁓ is if you're studying anybody who's in the gospel, ⁓ in the in the books of of the gospel, ⁓ and in the gospels, there that the political climate then, I mean, was so tense within Rome.
Denea (15:08)
May that's probably going to be ⁓ relevant to anybody who's referenced who you're doing a a person study, character study on during that time. Okay. ⁓ and outlining their life. Again, ⁓ some there are some people in the Bible we don't really know it's not detailed, but ⁓ we can piece together based off of what was culturally going on during that time, what their life was probably like. So those two steps.
Denea (15:38)
Depending on how much or how little might be two steps, might be one. Then we're gonna put in character tricks. What's what was this person like? ⁓ What was said about them? That's usually really helpful. Like how how are they described? ⁓ That those ⁓ those traits ⁓ can really help you ⁓ piece together how God used them. And then the last thing is that we're going to ⁓ ask ourselves, like what
Denea (16:07)
What can I gather from this person's life? Whoa, ⁓ how how what can I apply to my life? Learning it how what ooh, taking what I've learned from this person's life, how can I apply it to my life now? Okay, here's an example. So, ⁓ one of the recent character studies that I did was Lydia. ⁓ and I ⁓
Denea (16:34)
I'm looking at my notes. ⁓ I was actually in ⁓ autism shutdown. So I can definitively tell you that I did not ⁓ I w wasn't very specific here. ⁓ again, we're not, you know, pushing ourselves. God isn't like, ⁓ I I wish ⁓ I just wish they would study harder. I know they're in ⁓ autism burnout or autism shutdown or ADHD decision paralysis. Ooh, I wish they would just go harder. No, no, no, no.
Denea (17:03)
Our God knows us. We are fully seen, fully loved, and we are fully held in his hands. He knows us. He's familiar with us. He is more than okay ⁓ with us making decisions ⁓ during Bible study time and during life that support our neurodivergent needs. So ⁓ just keep that in mind because I did not get very specific here. ⁓
Denea (17:32)
And the first thing that I looked into was where is she referenced? ⁓ she's referenced in Acts. I just put New Testament and Acts. I I didn't get very specific. ⁓ establishing context. Okay, I y'all ⁓ found, ⁓ and this is all, this is one of the reasons why I love I don't just studying the Bible and then like getting the the cultural.
Denea (18:02)
And historical ⁓ kind and political all all of that. Okay. So this is what I found out about Lydia. Okay, so she's a seller of purple cloth. That is what that is that is in the Bible. ⁓ Now, I was like, why? That's really specific. The purple cloth part. You know, I was like, why, why didn't they just say she's a fabric?
Denea (18:27)
merchant or like that was really specific. So then I I did some research. And back in that time, purple cloth was actually really expensive. It had to be like the dye that they used and ⁓ it was really expensive. And so ⁓ usually the only people who had purple cloth were the rich, the wealthy. And so when it says that Lydia here
Denea (18:58)
⁓ was a seller of purple cloth. ⁓ She ⁓ she was a businesswoman. She ⁓ she was a ⁓ a pioneer, ⁓ if you will. She had influence. ⁓ And I think that is just so so fascinating. But also ⁓ and where where she was, and this kind of goes into ⁓ how she was talked about in the Bible.
Denea (19:28)
⁓ but she a lot of her business was across Europe. ⁓ And so this is pretty important because during this time, ⁓ there was such a ⁓ I mean it was pr very prominent, ⁓ not prominent, that's not the word I'm looking for. It was predominantly ⁓
Denea (19:54)
like Roman culture, Roman ⁓ Roman everything. R Roman culture. ⁓ the the politics, the everything. It there was a heavy Roman influence. So it was ⁓ this is pretty controversial for her to be ⁓ influential in spreading the gospel and I I kinda got ahead of what she what she's mentioned how she's mentioned what she did. ⁓ but it's very controversial for her to do this because
Denea (20:24)
⁓ I mean she ⁓ she is wealthy, ⁓ right? She ⁓ has a lot of money, ⁓ she had a house, like sh there there was a risk here. ⁓ There was a lot of risk in in what she was doing. And I think that's worth noting because it also helps us understand ⁓ her some of her traits, her character traits. ⁓ So, ⁓
Denea (20:53)
She's mentioned I should have said, ⁓ in Acts sixteen. And so ⁓
Denea (21:01)
I lost my place. Okay, yes. So she's a a a seller, purple cloth, l leader, influential, ⁓ and just learning a little bit about why the purple cloth, like why that was mentioned, that was very important. ⁓ And as a side note, whenever you see that ⁓ in the Bible, like something that's very specific like that, I I always try to ⁓ make a note of that.
Denea (21:28)
For example, ⁓ in Psalm twenty three, right, he makes me lie down in in green pastures. There like the first time I remember I I read that one of the the first times I started really like
Denea (21:44)
studying ⁓ the words. I was like, wow, that's so specific. And then I looked into ⁓ just being a a ⁓ shepherd ⁓ and ⁓ what it means to be able to provide your sheep with green pasture. ⁓ It's significant ⁓ of a good shepherd, a caring shepherd, an attentive shepherd. ⁓ because green pastures ⁓ are
Denea (22:14)
⁓ reflective of ⁓ having ⁓ a nutrient nutrient pat pasture nutritious pasture for for their sheep ⁓ and so whenever i see very specific ⁓ words like that i always ⁓ try to either make a note of it or if i can't you know study it right now that in that moment
Denea (22:39)
Or I try to study it in that moment because it can be really, really helpful with context. Okay. ⁓ So that's a little bit about ⁓ her life and when she's mentioned. ⁓ And then I also kind of went into ⁓ some of her traits. ⁓ So ⁓ and this is ⁓ Paul who is talking about about her. ⁓ he it's in one of his letters and
Denea (23:09)
⁓ it does say that she she and her household. So we know that she has ⁓ a house, which ⁓ was not really common ⁓ of ⁓ of women back in that time. We know probably that they came from cause she was a businesswoman. ⁓ and she she had money. And so it says that ⁓ in Acts sixteen, ⁓ I'm in chapter or I'm sorry.
Denea (23:38)
Chapter 15, verse 16, it says that she and her household were baptized, and she asked us to be her guest. If you agree that I am a true believer in the Lord, she said, Come in and stay at my home. And she urged us until we agreed. So we know that she's also hospitable. ⁓ and ⁓ what my goodness, I'm sorry. I lost my place again. ⁓ and so another thing that Paul
Denea (24:08)
says mentions about her is how she was instrumental in helping spread the gospel in Europe. And again, I think that this is something ⁓ that definitely ⁓ belongs in her character study because it was ⁓ pretty risky ⁓ for her for her to do that. we also see that she's hospitable. We also see that she's caring. ⁓ in verse 40 it says
Denea (24:37)
when Paul and Silas left the prison, they returned to the home of Lydia. They were met with believers and encouraged them once more. Then they left town. So she also let them come back. She also had it looked like other people were over there. So she was influential. Okay. So what what does all of this mean and like how do we how do we put it together?
Denea (25:02)
So ⁓ one of the things just from her character study that we can conclude ⁓ is that she ⁓ she took a risk. ⁓ Her her just being associated with Paul and Silas and her being associated with ⁓ the gospel movement was extremely risky at that time. And so for her to ⁓ open up her home
Denea (25:31)
Be influential and helping spreading the gospel message. we know that she's bold. And we know that also she is a God-fearing woman. We know that she is a business woman. We know that she's ⁓ influential within her community. Like she used her influence ⁓ for the good of the gospel. And so I kind of thought, ⁓ like what
Denea (25:58)
W what does all of this mean? How can how can I demonstrate in my life? And what I came up with was that I can look for opportunities to use whatever influence I have to spread the gospel, no matter how, you know, whatever no matter what's at risk. ⁓ and I also like that she was pretty ⁓ vocal about
Denea (26:24)
Being like a a worshiper, being somebody who loved God. When she was talking to ⁓ to to Paul ⁓ back up in verse ⁓ goodness, what was that? ⁓ in verse 15, right? If you agree that I'm a true believer in the Lord, she said, come and stay at my home. Like I love how vocal she was in like saying, like, hey, I am, like, I'm I'm a true believer.
Denea (26:53)
⁓ we also know too, and this this for me, it just goes off of ⁓ cultural context. ⁓ so around that time, because I mean, in that area everything was so Roman influenced, ⁓ they they worshipped ⁓ you know, Greek ⁓ Greek mythology was was huge and they worshipped a lot of other gods, and I have to imagine
Denea (27:20)
That she probably encountered people who worshipped ⁓ you know, false gods who who had who were wealthy, who were influential, but she didn't ⁓ become influenced by them. ⁓ She ⁓ she kind of stayed on the narrow path and ⁓ and as a believer. And so I think that's also something that I can ⁓
Denea (27:50)
apply to my life too is that, you know, no no matter the Bible talks about how there will be false teachers. ⁓ and no matter how influential someone is, you know, f for me to prioritize staying on the narrow path and asking for discernment so that I don't ⁓ become led astray and start to believe in like, you know, a toxic theology or just a a false God. I think that's important too.
Denea (28:20)
So that's just an example ⁓ of a ⁓ character study. Again, I'm still, I don't know, character study, person study, maybe, I don't know. ⁓ that I have done. And I think this is great to do during your Bible study time. ⁓ if you have the capacity, ⁓ think about doing it for a low battery day, or if ⁓ you are ⁓
Denea (28:50)
just in shutdown or something and maybe w still want to study the Bible, I think this is also a something that you can look back on. I think I've said on this podcast before, sometimes when I am in ⁓ autism shutdown, I'll just review my notes ⁓ versus actually studying, ⁓ you know, more. ⁓ I think character studies are great to revisit. I think character studies are also great to revisit to ⁓ add things.
Denea (29:20)
Because ⁓ along the way of our biblical interpretation journey, we learn ⁓ more, right, over time. ⁓ and so I'm talking about Lydia now. I don't know, maybe ⁓ in a year or two, ⁓ the Holy Spirit will reveal to me something about her and and how she's mentioned and when she's mentioned. ⁓
Denea (29:47)
that I'm I'm not even catching right now. And so at that time, you know, I can go back to my notebook ⁓ and update and and just add whatever whatever I'm learning. So I think character studies are really, really ⁓
Denea (30:04)
beneficial and again they help you us gain cultural context and I think they also just remind us that the people that are mentioned in the Bible were real people. Okay. ⁓ So that's it for today's episode. Like I said I'll put the link to the Instagram post so you can actually see what one looks like. I would love to hear if you have ever considered doing a character study ⁓
Denea (30:29)
⁓ Um ⁓ or if this is your first time listening uh hearing about it and you're like, Yeah, I'll give it an I'll give it a try. ⁓ Um, let me know how it goes. I'd I'd love to hear. Uh message me. You can either leave a comment on the podcast episode, ⁓ um, ⁓ on Spotify. I don't think Apple Music lets you do that yet. ⁓ Um, or you can message me ⁓ on Instagram ⁓ @Deneamarable
Denea (30:54)
⁓ all of that will be in the show notes too. ⁓ I love you. Take care of yourself and I will talk to you next time. Thanks for listening.

In this episode, I answer one of the commonly asked questions I receive: “Where should I start studying in the Bible?” You’ll hear faith based neurodivergent encouragement and how I decrease decision paralysis in studying the Bible. Transcript: 0:02 - 0:41 Hello, hello, it's Denea, your host of the Neurodivergent Bible Teaching Podcast. I hope that you, um, are having a great day, being kind to yourself. I have to share a joy with y'all, so I've, um, I did a Substack post just about how, you know, this is a— this is a tough season. I'm in the middle of a lot of chronic health conditions. Sorry if y'all heard that. 0:41 - 1:12 I'm sitting— I'm sitting on one of our— I don't know what you would call it, I guess ottomans. And I'm in the closet, you know, for acoustics. And I realized I just moved and it just made all this noise. So I'm sorry if that got to you on your end, but I'm just in the middle of a lot of chronic health testing. I don't know if I've really talked about the chronic conditions that I'm experiencing. 1:12 - 1:46 So I have Ehlers-Danlos Syndrome, POTS, Mast Cell Activation Syndrome, PCOS, endometriosis, scoliosis. Uh, I feel like I'm forgetting, not mentioning one or two. Um, I'm in the middle of like a lot of sleep study stuff too. It's already been confirmed that I have sleep apnea, but I still— my doctor wants me to do another, uh, different type of sleep test. So just kind of in the middle of a lot of that stuff. 1:47 - 2:26 Um, you know, just dealing with that in the midst of like going to OT and, and parent coaching And I'm writing a book, writing a devotional for neurodivergence. And just in that rhythm of like doctor's appointments, OT, call insurance, right? Like, just that daily, having that rhythm. I have really been trying to intentionally seek just joy and whimsical moments, whimsical things, sitting outside. Um, journaling outside. 2:26 - 3:13 I usually go for a lot of walks, um, and I really wanted to start hiking. However, I'm, I'm wearing a boot right now for— because I have tendonitis in my foot that has flared up, and so I'm not really able to do that. But anything that I can be doing outside, in a hammock, blowing bubbles— and y'all, I made the executive decision last weekend to start crocheting, and I'm thrilled. Like, the beginner set, it just got here before I started recording, and I feel like this is gonna unlock something in my brain, you know? Like, I feel like, I feel like this is going to unlock— I don't know, I'm just so excited to see what comes from this. 3:14 - 3:57 I look forward to any opportunity where I can be creative just because And like, I'm, I'm so excited, y'all. And so I hope that today that you give yourself permission to do that. I don't know, buy some stickers and decorate, and decorate a notebook or a mirror that you have, or wear a bright color, or talk to God in, in nature, or experience nature just by, you know, not with your phone. I do that all the time, like I take pictures and I'm like, oh, look at the cloud, look at that cloud, look at that flower. And then I'm like, oh wait, wait, Denae, put your phone down. 3:57 - 4:29 Um, you know, experience. I hope that you experience something, um, just in such an authentic way that allows you to be true to who you are. Um, I hope that you don't have to put on a performance today. You know, I hope that you can, can take down the mask today. What would that look like for you to just authentically engage with joy and whimsy as you are who you are for maybe a few minutes today? 4:29 - 5:05 I hope that you can give yourself that gift. Um, today's episode is all about A common— a commonly asked question that I get, um, it is like, where do I start studying the Bible? How, how do I start studying? Um, I've done episodes before on, um, biblical literacy practices. I've done an episode on like using the SOAP method, um when you're studying scripture. 5:06 - 5:46 I have a resource on my website all about like studying the Bible when you have ADHD. I also think it's a great resource if you— maybe you're not ADHD, maybe you're autistic, maybe you have OCD, maybe there's a— you have another neurodivergent experience. I talk a lot about, um, stimming and just what it looks like to be to get our brains ready to actually focus. Um, but this is going to be specifically like where— I get a lot of questions like, do I just pick a scripture? Uh, you know, I'm gonna read the Bible a lot more this year, that's a goal, but I don't know where to start. 5:46 - 6:07 Or I've never read the Bible before, where do I start? Um, so this— that's what today's episode is going to be all about. And let me say, I do want to preface this with two things. Number one, after you hear this episode, or while you hear this episode, pray. Ask God to give you wisdom. 6:07 - 6:54 Ask the Holy Spirit to give you discernment. And I think that is so important whenever we're taking in advice in general in life, right? Um, but also whenever, even when we're seeking like wise counsel um, even when we're talking to our friends or, or whoever with a faith-based, faith-based question, I think it's so important to filter their, um, opinion, their expertise, uh, through God's wisdom, through the Holy Spirit's discernment. And that person, right, may be well, well-meaning But maybe God is like, maybe this isn't the season for you to try it that way. I'll give you an example. 6:55 - 7:05 So, um, I love routines. That may or may not be a surprise to you, uh, but I love routine. Oh my goodness. 7:07 - 7:35 However, um, it was— this was a point like 2 years ago maybe. I was trying to figure out how to, how to get us into a structured morning What, what would that look like? We are a neurodivergent family. I'm neurodivergent, our son is neurodivergent. And so I started listening to all of these, I guess, influencers. 7:36 - 8:21 I mean, also people who are qualified, like, you know, therapists and stuff on YouTube and social media who had suggestions and ideas of what to do. In the morning, and I, you know, would try to implement, implement, and it didn't really seem like anything was sticking. And like, I noticed one of the, the common theme was that a lot of the people that I was seeking advice from, they weren't in a similar season of life that I was. And I don't think there's anything wrong with that. I just think that we have to be aware of like of that fact, because I know for sure what I was doing was I was taking advice, trying to implement something for somebody who didn't have to navigate waking up as a neurodivergent. 8:22 - 8:59 Like, I was taking in advice, um, from people, you know, well-meaning people, um, who were giving great advice, but maybe they weren't a parent, or maybe they didn't have a neurodivergent child, and maybe they themselves also weren't neurodivergent. Like, there were so many layers, and I was internalizing the failure. I was like, why can't this stick for us? And God was like, well, Denae, they're not— you guys aren't building the same house with the same materials. You can't— don't beat yourself up. 8:59 - 9:35 And he said it a lot more lovingly than that. But so that's why I think it's so important after you hear this and maybe you try to implement it, maybe you try to do it yourself, before you do that, seek wisdom with God and ask the Holy Spirit to give you discernment. The second thing that I want to preface this and say is that these types of questions, if you, if you Google it or if you ask people, you will get a variety of answers. And so know that this is not the only solution by any means. This is just a solution. 9:35 - 10:06 You know, this is just mine. So let's just say that you do try it and it doesn't work out for you, uh, know that there, there are other ways to approach like the solution to those types of questions. Okay. With that being said, I think that one of the best things, um, about one of the best things that is not talked about enough when it comes to teaching neurodivergence the Bible. Is our love and our need for context. 10:07 - 10:42 As neuro— as an autistic individual, ADHD, OCD, complex PTSD, I rely heavily on context. I don't want to speak for all neurodivergents, but I know that there are a lot of us who do, just in our conversations, in our daily life. Um, if you have ever Googled the restaurant before you've gotten there to see what the parking situation was, that you're seeking context. Have you ever Googled a restaurant to look at the menu before you've gotten there? Seeking context. 10:43 - 11:26 Um, when you're around people and you're trying to maybe figure out if somebody's in a, a good mood, like there are certain maybe body signals that you're, you're trying to figure out. Like, context. We absolutely love context. And I think that is such a great thing to lean into Bible study with because it allows us as neurodivergents to support our neurodivergent needs, stay true to who we are as neurodivergents while practicing biblical literacy. Because context is a big part of biblical literacy, whether it's biblical, historical, cultural context. 11:27 - 11:54 It can help us study and comprehend and apply the Bible as God intended for us to do so. So whenever someone asks me like, what— what— where should I start? Should I just pick a scripture? Um, should I start in Genesis? Here's my response: if you are neurodivergent, I— my suggestion is to always start in the book of John. 11:56 - 12:18 And I say that because I think it gives us great context. I really, really do. Again, if you ask anyone else, I— they will probably have a different answer, and that's okay. But that is just my answer. I think the Book of John, it gives us a deeper look into Jesus's ministry. 12:18 - 13:24 I also think there's just a lot of— there's a lot of background information in the book of John, just about Jesus, um, and how he approached humanity and why he came. And yes, you can get that in other books of the Bible, but that's just one of my favorite places to start. Like, even when I, um, kind of go through studying the Bible, I usually start in the book of John, and then I go to Genesis, and then I read the Bible like in order, in order as it appears in my Bible, I should say. Because, and side note, this is gonna be a little random tangent, but so most Bibles are put together in how they kind of— God, Lord, help me say this— they are put together by genre, like a collection. Not in the order that they were written, not in chronological order. 13:25 - 13:54 So when I say I go in order, I mean in the order that they put it together in the Bible, not the original order. I really hope that that makes sense. So I started John, and then I started the beginning of Genesis, and then I work my way through. Occasionally I will actually study the Bible in the order that it was written, But that's just how I usually do it. I usually start at the book of John and then to Genesis, and then I work my way through to Revelation. 13:54 - 14:41 And I even do that because, and I mean, this is just the beauty of scripture, I think, for all of us, right? Like, there are some times when I have gone, when I've read a scripture, I don't know how many times, I've studied it, I've gotten context, and then years later, like the Holy Spirit will reveal something new to me, and I'll be like, whoa, that's been there the whole time and I didn't, I didn't even see it. So like, even every time when I do it, I get something new. Plus, like, I'm going through different seasons of my life, right, while I'm rereading, while I'm restudying the Book of John. And so I think that also, um, has something to do with like what we kind of get from our study time, how we're able to relate to it. 14:41 - 15:19 So that is always my answer, the book of John, and then go back, because the Bible is connected. All of Scripture is connected through Jesus, right? Like, he, he connects Scripture. And so when we study the book of John and then go back in Genesis we can kind of see that redemption theme, we can see that messianic theme, we can see all of that. And it's a good practice, and it— I mean, it's— I'm kind of going off on another tangent here. 15:19 - 16:08 And another reason why I think it's good to start off at the book of John is because you do get context about Jesus and his ministry. But then when you're studying the other books of the Bible, starting from Genesis, I mean, the the redemption arc is, is playing, right? That's where the fall happens. And so that, that's where that need for redemption, um, happens. And so when we're studying the Bible, we can start to— with that context in mind, with, with Jesus and with what we studied in, in John, the book of John in mind— then we can start to practice identifying certain types identifying certain messianic themes, and then we can see for ourselves how Jesus connects Scripture. 16:11 - 16:51 Again, if you ask other people, they will, they will tell you the same thing. I have certainly— I will be honest with y'all— I have opened my Bible before and just picked a scripture and, and studied that scripture, whatever scripture my finger landed on. Here's the thing, I have found that when I do that, when I used to do that, I was missing out on so much context. That's kind of what happens, right, when we pick one scripture, one verse, or maybe a couple of verses, and just in the middle of the book, just, oh, I'm just gonna land here, I'm just gonna study here. Um, we're just missing context. 16:52 - 17:39 And so I don't suggest that. Um, I do certainly think that God will bless whatever time you spend in his word, right, with that heart posture of like, hey, I'm trying to learn. I do, I do believe that God— like, that's not going to go wasted, but it's just not something that I suggest because I feel like a lot of context is missing when we do that. So that is my answer. I would love, love to hear your thoughts, your— maybe something that works for you if you have a certain way that you study the Bible in terms of order. 17:40 - 18:12 Oh, and you know what? I also I also wanted to say too, um, thank you, Holy Spirit, because I, I totally forgot I wanted to say this. Another reason why I think it is so great to start in John and then start at Genesis is because, y'all, this cuts down on, um, decision paralysis. Ask somebody who is ADHD. My goodness, my goodness, I know what decision paralysis is. 18:12 - 18:45 You know, it's when you have so many options, or it's when you've been making so many choices already and your brain needs a break, and it's like you're, you're just not able to make a decision. Like, you, you try to make a decision and that information is just not there. Like, I can— I call it like I'm glitching. Like, that's usually what I call it. Like, when I'm trying to make a decision and like, I'm like, I'm glitching, I can't, I can't I can't make this decision. 18:46 - 19:36 And one thing that I know about that experience for me— again, I don't want to speak for all ADHDers, I don't want to speak for anyone who's ever experienced decision paralysis before— but one thing I know to be true for me about decision paralysis is that the longer I let it sit in, it's like the heavier it gets, the harder it is to move through it. So when I go to my Bible and I'm like, I don't know what to study, like the longer I kind of glitch, I'm in that like glitching mode, the harder it's gonna be for me to make a decision. Because then I'm like, OCD kind of comes in, it's like, well, maybe there's a right decision here. And, and so like it just gets harder to get through. And so that is another reason why I— this is just something that has worked for me. 19:37 - 20:23 And, um, again, this podcast is all about me finding things, studying things, things that I learned in school, things that I learned in my, my personal life, um, that work for me, that I know have— struggling with it have brought me shame— that I want to share with you so that you don't think you're the only one, so that you don't internalize the shame that comes with certain experiences like trying to figure out how to study the Bible, trying to figure out how to make a decision on Scripture and, and all that good stuff. I want to share it with you. If it's worked for me, I absolutely want to share it with you. So yes, John, then go to Genesis. It hands down for me cuts down my decision paralysis time when it comes to studying the Bible. 20:23 - 20:56 Okay, thank you, Holy Spirit, because I, I completely forgot about that. So I, yes, I want to hear all about your your experience when you're trying to figure out what to study. You know, if it's not like a devotional, like if you're doing like a scripture, um, a Bible study, I should say. If it's like a Bible study or a book study, something like that. If you're just kind of having your personal— talking about your personal Bible study time, you're trying to figure out what to study, I would love to hear what you have been doing. 20:57 - 21:19 Feel free to reach out to me, my email, and This will be in the show notes, is deneamarable@gmail.com. On Instagram, I am @deneamarable. I love you. Take care of yourself, good care of yourself. Be kind to yourself, and I will talk to you next time.

In this episode of the neurodivergent Bible teaching podcast, I go over some practical ways to create and nurture and inclusive church environment for autistic adults. I have found that in my conversations with other autistic adults and neurodivergent adults there is a common theme of us, not feeling as though we belong in church. While we may be welcomed, we often feel as though we have to mask our neurodivergent needs in order to be accepted in church. Feel free to send this episode to a pastor, church, leader, ministry, leader, volunteer leader or church member so that they can receive ideas on how to create and nurture inclusive environments within their church for autistic adults or pray about which idea you’d like to discuss with someone wiwithin your church. While I mention these ideas are for autistic adults, they can be utilized to create and nurture inclusive environments of belonging for Christian neurodivergent adults. I’d love to hear your experience about what’s reminded you that you belong in church. Message me: @deneamarable on instagram.
Transcript:
0:01 - 0:58Hello, it's Denea, your host of the Neurodivergent Bible Teaching Podcast. This podcast is dedicated to helping you understand how to study the Bible. I'm Denea, I'm neurodivergent, I'm autistic, I have ADHD and OCD, and I know what it's like to struggle to understand how to study the Bible, let alone also honoring my brain while doing it. I've learned a few things through seminary, um, through life, and I want to share those things with you. In this podcast, you will hear all about, um, studying techniques, some Bible studies so you can understand how to apply those techniques, some neurodivergent encouragement, and just some ways that I'm learning to honor the way that God has created my brain I'm so happy that you're here. 
1:00 - 1:00Let's get started. 
1:05 - 1:34Hello, hello, it's Denea, host of the Neurodivergent Bible Teaching Podcast. I hope that wherever you are, you are able to just for a moment be where your feet are. And what I mean by that is, okay, so, you know, I can't just tell you a story. I have to give you context. Is anybody else like that? 
1:35 - 2:13I have to, I have to kind of preface the story before I tell it to you. So last week I was out of town. I was actually doing two presentations at the Disability in the Church Conference. It's put on by the Shine Foundation and also Key Ministry. It's for church leaders, pastors, uh, volunteers, just advocates of change for disability to talk about, um, what we can do, what we are doing that can grow disability ministries all over the world. 
2:13 - 2:29That was one of the cool things about it. It wasn't just in the United States. It was all over the world, and y'all had a great time. I felt so anxious. I felt, I felt so anxious the whole week because I was out of my routine. 
2:30 - 3:01Um, I felt anxious because I am most likely gonna have to have surgery for endometriosis. Um, we're trying to figure out like the date for that, and I felt anxious for other things that are— that I'm thinking about, like, in the future, right? And they're good things. I feel like a lot of times when we talk about what we're— what we're feeling anxious about, like, we try to downplay them, um, but some— like, sometimes those things are valid, right? And the things I was feeling very, very anxious about, they were all about in the future. 
3:01 - 3:30were, They um, very valid things. But I had to remind myself, and I really feel like this was like God, um, because he didn't like shame me, or he, you know, he didn't tell me, um, that those things I wasn't worried— that I was worried about— he wasn't like, oh, Danae, those things aren't important. He was like, Danae, just be where your feet are, like right, right, right here for, for this moment. Can you focus? Can you work at being present where you are? 
3:31 - 4:03Um, you know, that might be like a grounding technique, or that might be a breathing technique, that might be noticing the trees or the leaves around me or the room around me. Um, or like the doors, or just being— just coming back to the present. And I hope that today you can do that for yourself, because I do— I really do believe that's a gift, um, that God wants us to have. I think that's a big— just being in the present when we can, you know. I think that's such a great gift that God wants to give us. 
4:04 - 4:34And there are a lot of things that happen in that moment, right? There's a there's sometimes this peace about maybe something that we're feeling anxious about, God's peace that overwhelms us. Maybe we start to feel joy as we listen to the birds right where we are. Maybe we start to realize, you know, how special that moment is just by bringing ourselves back to the present. So I hope that you're able to do that today. 
4:35 - 5:25Um, today's episode is going to be on making— how can we make, create, um, and nurture environments for autistic adults? And really, I'm saying autistic adults, um, but to be honest with you, I think this episode could be for neurodivergent individuals in general, neurodivergent adults. Um, because I— what I've found is, and this was a key point in the conference, like, there's a difference between welcoming and belonging, right? Like, when you go to a church, there is usually a— some sort of welcome team. Somebody's opening the doors for you, um, maybe handing out a pamphlet. 
5:25 - 6:13Somebody's waving at you. But belonging, especially for us who are neurodivergent, we feel like we belong when we can be ourselves, right? Like when we're not masking in church, when we feel accepted in the church, when we feel like we don't need to mask or hide or diminish ourselves, our true neurodivergent selves, that's when we start to feel like we belong. Like when people want us there fully as we are. And so I'm going to talk about a few things, um, that church leaders, church pastors, volunteers, or maybe you can bring this to, um, a member of your church. 
6:13 - 6:54Maybe you can bring these ideas to them and kind of collaborate and see how you can incorporate— pray about it first and then see how you can incorporate them into your church. So most of you know Um, I'm neurodivergent. I'm autistic, ADHD, OCD, and complex PTSD. And I think that as I start to have more conversations, usually like online, with other, um, neurodivergent Christians just about church, a lot of us tend to disengage in church because we don't really feel like we belong. We feel like we have to hide ourselves. 
6:55 - 7:23And so in order to create an inclusive environment, one that is of true belonging, I believe that it starts, number one, with this mindset that comes from scripture. It's 1 Corinthians 12:12. For context, it's talking about the body of Christ. I'm reading from the NLT version. The human body has many parts, but the many parts make up one whole body. 
7:23 - 7:41So it is with the body of Christ. And it's a mindset that says, okay, there's diversity within the body of Christ. There is supposed to be diversity within the body of Christ. It should be embraced. 
7:43 - 7:51It's a mindset that also says that all members of the body of Christ are valued. 
7:53 - 8:30It's a mindset that says there's interdependence within the body of Christ. We need each other as members of one body. We need each other, but interdependence is tough when parts of the body are being excluded. Excluded how? Well, one of the, um, common narratives about why autistic adults, about why, um, neurodivergent Christians disengage from church is because of the worship experience. 
8:30 - 8:51It's too loud. It's, it's too loud. Lights are too bright. And so if we are talking about creating an inclusive environment, right, it means creating a worship experience, an environment where we are allowed to care for our neurodivergent needs. We don't have to mask. 
8:51 - 9:35And I think practically what that looks like, number one, if a church has multiple worship experiences have one of those experiences. You can have one of those experiences, preferably both, but let's just start with one that is a designated sensory worship experience. This means, say for example, you got a 9 o'clock, you got an 11 o'clock. At 9 o'clock, sensory worship experience where we are going to play the music softer, we're going to dim the lights as well, If you don't have multiple worship experiences, that's totally fine. Can you have headphones when people come in? 
9:35 - 9:50Can you have fidgets? Can you have earplugs when people come in? Can you have, um, like notepads or something for us to, to kind of doodle with? That's another form of like, uh, stimming, right? Drawing or doodling. 
9:50 - 10:18Can you have that? Because when that is at the door Right, as we are coming in, we see, oh, okay, I'm allowed to stim while I worship, right? And that's a hint, that's a reminder to us that we belong. But we need to be, as you are planning your worship sets, right, you know you're gonna have worship. Like, that's a given. 
10:20 - 10:58We need to be in that planning process, not as an afterthought. We need to be in that planning process. Another area I think, um, that is an opportunity to create an inclusive environment is through discipling and teaching. Y'all, autistic individuals need to be— we need to be discipled and we need to be taught. When people are teaching autistic adults, I think one of the great ways to make your curriculum inclusive is whenever you, you finish your, your teaching and you're like, does anybody have any questions? 
10:59 - 11:46And nobody raises their hand, one of the best things you can do is not— don't assume we didn't get anything out of it just because we didn't raise our hand. As autistic adults, a lot of us, we have what's called a complex processing system, this means that we are taking in so much information at once, usually more than we're even aware of, and we need time to process the information that we're taking in. So for example, we could be taking in a lesson. We could also be taking in, um, the sound of the choir practicing down the hall. We, we could be taking in the sound of the electricity. 
11:47 - 12:06We could— like, there are multiple things all at once, right? Our body, we might be feeling hungry. Like, there are so many different sensations, and there's a lot of information that we are often taking in at once. If we— our body, our minds, we need more time to process that because it is a lot of information. So don't assume we didn't get anything. 
12:07 - 13:01Matter of fact, after you ask that question, if there are no no questions, one of the best things you can do is say, "If you have a question later on this week, this month, in the future, here's how you can reach out to me," and give your email address or contact information. And then when we come to you with our questions, receive them with curiosity and not judgment. So a lot of times we tend to connect as neurodivergent Christians, we tend to connect information, especially when we're learning, to things that are relevant to us. So it could be something that we heard someone say years ago, or it could be connected to a special interest or something that we're— a hobby or something that we're really into at the moment. And to you it might seem random, but I promise you, to us it is connected. 
13:03 - 13:47So one of the best things. And that's why I think that let— giving us the space, allowing us to have this room to process information, you are giving us freedom to process information in ways that honor how our brains work. And it takes the pressure off. I cannot tell you how demanding it feels whenever I am learning something new. I feel so much pressure to get it right away And then I can kind of sense when somebody is frustrated with me because I'm not getting it, and then I start to get frustrated, and now I have to figure out how to regulate my— like, it— and when you give us space, when we are given space to process information, it is a gift. 
13:48 - 14:02And as teachers, especially in God's house, like, that, that is something that should be done. Incorporating, uh, creativity with teaching. So this might look like singing, dancing, acting, drawing. 
14:05 - 14:59This helps us actually, while we're learning something new, this helps us regulate our nervous system. Remember, don't assume just because we're, you know, playing with a, with a fidget, um, where we're drawing, we're sketching, uh, we're rocking, don't assume we're not paying attention. Incorporating creativity with a lesson is a great way to help us stay regulated while we're learning something new because again we're processing a lot of information and then we can be really tough on ourselves when we don't get it right away. And so when we are— when there's some type of creativity incorporated it helps us stay regulated. I would love for churches to have Bible study groups, connection groups for autistic adults, for neurodivergent adults. 
14:59 - 15:47And I say this because I think honestly there are a lot more neurodivergent adults attending churches, but we, we just don't know of any other neurodivergent adults, you know, like unless somebody tells us, we don't— we may not know. And so we feel very much alone. Being a neurodivergent adult, it can be a very lonely experience. And I think that the church should really set the tone and the standard for community, creating a community of belonging. Um, and I think this is one way it can be done, by specifically having connection groups, um, whatever you call them in your church, Bible study groups for autistic adults. 
15:47 - 16:43And you know what, cultivate connection here. Let us have a session where we were able to talk about our special interest, you know, like, let, let us be us. Again, it has to be cultivated, it has to be intentionally done, and be willing to learn as you go and make adjustments. I think sometimes it's easy to have a teaching lesson, a teaching plan, and then when it doesn't go that way, you get frustrated and you keep pushing it, you keep pushing it, and it doesn't go the way that you wanted for whatever reason. Well, with autistic adults, with neurodivergent adults, I think it is really important to be flexible and to make adjustments because our might capacity be very low. 
16:43 - 17:01Maybe there's an autistic individual who's just had a week of masking, right? Like, we've all been there. It is physically, mentally, and spiritually draining. And you know what? That person is not— they're not going to get your lesson, most likely. 
17:01 - 17:26Not because of they're not intelligent, because it's, it's because they're tired, right? Have you ever tried to teach somebody something when they're tired. You might need to adjust your curriculum in order to honor that person. Don't keep pushing the lesson if you see that that person is, is just creating more frustration and much more frustrated. Don't push it on them. 
17:27 - 17:50You need to adjust your curriculum in order to honor what that person needs at that moment. That person needs regulation, not a curriculum at that moment. Serving. I think that is another area of opportunity for the church to create belonging and inclusive spaces. Y'all, allow us to serve in STEM. 
17:52 - 18:27I will never forget, there was one church, uh, that we went to when I signed up to be a greeter, and the person who was teaching me was I could sense her frustration. I could sense she was getting frustrated with me because I wasn't doing it the way that she was. I'll be honest, I found that experience very overwhelming. It was like I could not keep up with every interaction. Like, I, I was trying, I was trying to, but then like I was, I was at a point in my neurodivergent journey where I was still like forcing myself to look people in the eye. 
18:28 - 18:41And I felt so overwhelmed. It was a huge sensory overwhelming experience for me, and she kept getting frustrated with me. And I will tell you, eventually what happened was I just stopped showing up. 
18:43 - 18:53So when you allow us to serve, allow us to serve and stim, we might not look people in the eye when we're serving. That's okay. It's still holy. 
18:55 - 19:15We might not serve— our serving, it might not look like everyone around us, but it is still holy and it is still valuable and impactful to the kingdom of God. Be patient with us as we're learning new things, as we're trying something new, as we're getting outside of our comfort zone. Be patient with us. Encourage us. 
19:18 - 19:24So in conclusion, we need to be included, not an afterthought. And how worship experiences will go. 
19:26 - 20:22Be willing— if we're talking about how to nurture, right? We've— let's say we've created, um, an inclusive environment and there's belonging. When we talk about nurturing, this is how you nurture an environment that is inclusive to autistic adults, to neurodivergent Christians. Be willing to listen and learn to the autistic voices, to the neurodivergent voices within your church, and make adjustments as needed to remind us that we belong. When pastors, church leaders, ministry leaders, volunteers, members of the church are willing to listen and learn to us, and willing to include us in the decisions that are being made about that ministry, about that group. 
20:23 - 20:53That's how you nurture an inclusive environment, by listening to us, by including us in the planning, by letting us make decisions. Let autistic adults serve in leadership positions. Let neurodivergent serve adults in leadership positions. And then when we give you our feedback, be willing to adjust, right? It can't sometimes— the reason can't be we're going to do this just because this is the way that it's always been done. 
20:54 - 21:00That can't be it. That's not how we nurture inclusive environments of belonging. That's not it. 
21:04 - 21:25There are holy interactions that can occur through autistic individuals. It doesn't matter where we fall on the spectrum. Through neurodivergent individuals, it doesn't matter what neurodivergent experience we have. It doesn't matter where we fall on the neurodivergent spectrum. There can be holy interactions that can occur through us. 
21:26 - 21:30We are a part of the Great Commission, right? We have been called. 
21:32 - 21:39We can't evangelize. We need to be taught and we need to be discipled. 
21:42 - 22:18When people within a church are not being taught, discipled, um, basically that sends a message of exclusion when the kingdom of God is all about inclusion. That's why some of the religious leaders in that day in Jesus's day when he walked the earth. That's why some of them were so upset with him, right? Because they were like, no, not everybody's actually worthy of God's forgiveness, of being holy, right, of being righteous. And here was Jesus ushering in the kingdom of heaven and being like, no, it's actually open to everyone. 
22:20 - 22:25The people that you've pushed aside, ignored— no, no, no, no, God, God welcomes them. 
22:27 - 23:10Autistic adults, Christian neurodivergents, neurodivergent adults, individuals, we are filled with purpose. We are a part of the kingdom of heaven and we have holy work to do. When you do, as a church leader, ministry leader, pastor, disability ministry leader, volunteer, member of a church, When there is intentionality to create and nurture environments, you remind us of this, that we have holy work to do and that we're needed, right? That's that interdependence. Like, we would be missed in the kingdom of heaven. 
23:10 - 23:12We are needed. We're valued too. 
23:14 - 23:50That is it for today's episode. Send this to someone, um, if you know that they are ministry leader, church leader, or you can pray about it and take it to someone within your church and pray on how to start incorporating this. Like, I, I was so motivated, right, to last week to have, um, I was like, I— okay, okay, God, I hear you. I need to have— I need to have a member— I need to request a meeting with with my pastor. Got it, noted. 
23:50 - 24:22Like, I, I felt that in my spirit, um, last week. And I encourage you to pray and, um, you know, ask for wisdom and discernment on how you can do this where you are. I would love to hear your thoughts if you do take it to someone, send it to someone, and like somehow incorporate something that I talked about, or maybe it was something else. I would love to hear about it. Let's spread some really cheerful news. 
24:23 - 24:31You can message me on Instagram @deneamarable. I love you, and I will talk to you next time. Bye! 
 

Since this recording, the name of PDA has changed to Pervasive Demand Avoidance. I personally feel this is a better descriptor for this experience.
 
In this episode, I talk about what has helped me, as a PDAer, study the Bible. As PDAers, studying the Bible can be challenging. We know that we are supposed to study the Bible as Christians but also need to honor our nervous system’s response to the demand of studying the Bible. I’ll mention a few of things that have helped me still study the Bible while being a PDAer and some of the resources that have helped me as well. I’d love to hear your experience with PDA and any resources that have been helpful for you. Feel free to reach out: Instagram: deneamarable Threads: deneamarable TikTok: deneamarable Email: deneamarable@gmail.com Website: deneamarable.com

Rejection sensitive dysphoria can make studying the Bible difficult. You may feel extremely overwhelmed by the possibility that you may get an interpretation wrong.
In today’s podcast episode, you’ll hear some tips that had helped me navigate RSD during my Bible study time.
I’d love to know, is RSD something you experience? Feel free to DM on Instagram: @deneamarable

Over the past year or so, I’ve been doing a lot more Bible teaching and faith-filled neurodivergent encouragement on this podcast and I have felt a shift coming because of that. To honor that feeling, I’ve changed the name of the podcast from The Faith-Filled Mom Podcast to The Neurodivergent Bible Teaching Podcast. Nothing outside of the name will really change. You’ll still hear Bible teaching, Bible studying tips and biblical neurodivergent encouragement. I’m so happy that you are here! I appreciate you listening, sharing, reviewing, or downloading this podcast. It helps the podcast reach more people and I’m appreciative of it all!